General Motors Future Product Preview...

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by camaro_corvette

I hope the aveo gets a facelift. That thing looks terrible.

It will be.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

So for the most part....your concern is concentrated in the RWD vs FWD debate?

Not entirely. Audi has certainly proved with its A8 that you don't have to be RWD to compete in the luxury flagship segment. Then again, Acura hasn't proven the same with its RL. I believe it is possible to have a longitudinal FWD platform underpin a proper luxury flagship. My concerns are:

1. I don't think Cadillac has the cachet and background to pull this off. Brands like Audi and Saab are known for AWD systems. In Audi's case, it really is their signature thing.
2. Origin of the platform. It would be one thing if GM said, "Hey, we have this new platform for the XTS. Our market research shows a FWD model with AWD optional is what this segment needs, but it is designed to be a premium platform. Later, we'll decontent it for Chevrolet." Instead, it went the other way around, bringing up a platform meant for lower brands. Also, unless they plan to release this thing now, the platform will already be old and possibly outdated by the time it gets to Cadillac. The natural order of things is for progress to trickle down from the luxury brand, not for the luxury brand to accept hand-me-downs from the lower brand.
3. Overlap: what will differentiate this from the LaCrosse? Styling, sure, but what else? Gizmos? Obviously there will have to be a lower end model of the XTS, and a high end model of the LaCrosse, which is extremely kitted-out. Overlap is inevitable, and that is a big, historic problem for GM. You just spend lots of money cannibalizing sales from yourself.

Those are my primary concerns for now. I'll adjust later as we know more.

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Because it won't be. Alpha's already in development.

I am so done fighting about this.

I just don't follow the logic of developing a new advanced platform that is supposedly competitive with the long-standing class leader for your entry level sedan while tossing your "flagship" and old Chevy platform. That just so goes against the natural order of things that I have trouble wrapping my mind around it. Of course, if that really is how it is I'll personally be OK, as I'm more likely to buy the small entry level model anyway, but it makes precious little sense for the Cadillac brand.

Originally Posted by camaro_corvette

I hope the aveo gets a facelift. That thing looks terrible.

I'm very interested in seeing how the new Aveo (Viva?) turns out. I am very disappointed by the current Aveo. I majorly respect the Fit, and even recommended it to my sister. She oddly decided she actually liked the Aveo better. Go figure. I'm very interested in the Fiesta and frankly I'm very tempted to buy one as my daily driver. The Aveo/Viva has to be really good. This segment has turned red hot. From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed.

[Mr. Wyndham]

As for Cadillac, they need to give me a reason to be disappointed. I REALLY like the SRX. I saw one in person up at St. Catharines last Friday...but I digress...GM was given a second chance at life, more or less....so I'm holding criticsm for a while....

Originally Posted by stovt001

I'm very interested in seeing how the new Aveo (Viva?) turns out. I am very disappointed by the current Aveo. I majorly respect the Fit, and even recommended it to my sister. She oddly decided she actually liked the Aveo better. Go figure. I'm very interested in the Fiesta and frankly I'm very tempted to buy one as my daily driver. The Aveo/Viva has to be really good. This segment has turned red hot. From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed.

The only legitimate complaint I can lodge against the Aveo...having almost bought one myself...we even worked out rough pricing......


Was mpg vs. size. It got the same mpg as the Cobalt but had what seemed to be half the space. Other than that, I felt it was comparable in quality and design. Which means good.

[stovt001]

On the Motor Trend issue:

It says the Buick compact will retain Chevy sheetmetal with changes to the front and rear fascias and interior. So this is the GM cheap rebadging legacy continued. G5/Cobalt anyone?

And this article also has the Cadillac flagship on Sigma instead of the Chevy leftovers. Why can't that be true? They have the platform already developed and it is good enough to underpin a flagship model. This further reinforces how unfathomable the decision to use Epsilon II is.

[FenwickHockey65]

Okay, everyone quit worrying.

1. Henderson just confirmed a RWD/AWD Alpha-based Cadillac. It won't be on Delta II.

2. Buick compact is most likely NOT going to be a Cruze rebadge (another thing MotorTrend has wrong), it'll probably be the Astra sedan which looks significantly different than the Cruze.

[AZCamaroFan]

Kind of suprised to hear about the Malibu, but they need to update it every 4-5 years like the japanese do.
Kind of concerned about the Corvette. Anyone see it's sales dropped from 35,000 last year to 16,000 this year? I know there is a recession , but that is huge drop. If they aren't going to do a new car in the next few years, it would be nice to put a new interior in it. I thought the harping on it the magazines do was too much, but looking at the interior in the Malibu and Camaro, it's obvious the Corvette needs an upgrade.

[stovt001]

I'm not too worried about the Corvette. Selling 16,000 sports cars in the middle of the worst recession in decades is still pretty good. There is no reason they can't keep offering interior improvements to the C6 for the next few years. That's relatively easy to do without a full redesign, and the rest of the car is still competitive in every way. If the Grand Sport is any indication, the Corvette is one more seasoned model that GM actually intends to keep fresh, unlike the Impala.

[AZCamaroFan]

That's right, but they havn't shown a willingness to upgrade the interior. they made no change to C5 interior or exterior ,during it's run.

[stovt001]

They already have upgraded the C6's interior once. In my opinion, that shows a willingness.

[FenwickHockey65]

Update...

Cadillac XTS reportedly based heavily on Cadillac Sixteen concept minus the super-long hood.

Cadillac ATS built on Alpha RWD/AWD platform, looks like a smaller, evolved CTS, 3rd gen. CTS already in development, looks to be on stretched Alpha platform.

Link to GMInsideNews article

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Update...

Cadillac XTS reportedly based heavily on Cadillac Sixteen concept minus the super-long hood.

Cadillac ATS built on Alpha RWD/AWD platform, looks like a smaller, evolved CTS, 2nd gen. CTS already in development, looks to be on stretched Alpha platform.

Link to GMInsideNews article

Seems like a V6, FWD sedan would have weird proportions being based on a RWD, V16 design.

Also, I remember reading in Motor Trend a while back that the Alpha Cadillac was specifically planned to not mimic CTS styling, because that made making a coupe and droptop difficult. I guess the coupe then will borrow the CTS-coupe's extreme fastback design, but a convertible is probably out of the question then.

And don't you mean 3rd gen CTS? And this is the first I've heard of it moving off Sigma. Is that platform going to be killed off then? Shame, since it seems like a good platform. I still don't understand why they didn't put the XTS on it.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by stovt001

And don't you mean 3rd gen CTS?

Yeah, fixed.

[stovt001]

According to Edmunds, the ATS won't be here until 2012 at the earliest. GM has been developing Alpha for how many years, and have gone without a player in this important segment for how long? GM should become DM - Delayed Motors.

[FenwickHockey65]

Another update...

Next-gen Chevrolet Malibu launch pushed up, slated for Jan. 2011 launch as a 2012 model.