Car Performance - For Real People

[PalmerGA]

While I appreciate road track racing for the skill-n-thrill aspect, what really impresses me is how quickly a car can cover a quarter mile straight line. I grew up around drag racing and it's still in my blood, though it's been many years (like, almost 40) since I was in the driver's seat. So, though I love 'em... a 1LE or Z/28 is not in my future due to lack of need for a road track car (and I am sure they would be pretty impressive at the strip as well). A ZL1? Maybe - but I doubt it. I have no visions of dominating a drag strip anymore and what's the point if all I do is drive the streets. My SS is all I need, though I have modded a little and will likely do a little more performance wise.

[wadeh]

The Camaro and the Corvette are performance cars.

If you want to get a car that has style and features without an emphasis on performance, the market is flooded with them. And if you want cars that are designed for great balance on the street, there are some fantastic options. Check out the Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ some time. And while many "car guys" scoff at them, a Miata is one of the best driver's cars ever made.

The Corvette fills a completely different niche. It's the American vision of a supercar and it is awesome. I hope that they never water it down with a version that's intended for anything other than spectacular performance.

For what's described in the first post, the Camaro fits the bill perfectly. You can get the same car in everything from Z/28 and ZL1 at the pure performance end, down to the very affordable LS version that still offers great performance for the price. And there are many options in between.

Regarding the thought that track levels of performance aren't needed on the street, of course this is true. But since when is any enthusiast car about need? I have both a Camaro SS and a Corvette (C6, not C7). I don't track them and I will never come close to approaching their true potential on the street. Yet I get great satisfaction driving them, in a way that I wouldn't get if they didn't have all that potential. Is that a rational thinking on my part? Of course, not. But I didn't buy them to be utilitarian transportation. I bought them because they are a bright spot in my day.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

While I appreciate road track racing for the skill-n-thrill aspect, what really impresses me is how quickly a car can cover a quarter mile straight line. I grew up around drag racing and it's still in my blood, though it's been many years (like, almost 40) since I was in the driver's seat. So, though I love 'em... a 1LE or Z/28 is not in my future due to lack of need for a road track car (and I am sure they would be pretty impressive at the strip as well). A ZL1? Maybe - but I doubt it. I have no visions of dominating a drag strip anymore and what's the point if all I do is drive the streets. My SS is all I need, though I have modded a little and will likely do a little more performance wise.

Could you see GM offering a dragstrip package? Similar to the 1LE track package? But this one specifically for the strip. I think that would rock.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by snaphappy

Could you see GM offering a dragstrip package? Similar to the 1LE track package? But this one specifically for the strip. I think that would rock.

My only concern with this is that the components that would lead to great weight transfer for straight line acceleration might not be very suited for street driving. It could make a street car a bit unstable. Maybe not though....it is interesting.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by wadeh

The Camaro and the Corvette are performance cars.

If you want to get a car that has style and features without an emphasis on performance, the market is flooded with them. And if you want cars that are designed for great balance on the street, there are some fantastic options. Check out the Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ some time. And while many "car guys" scoff at them, a Miata is one of the best driver's cars ever made.

The Corvette fills a completely different niche. It's the American vision of a supercar and it is awesome. I hope that they never water it down with a version that's intended for anything other than spectacular performance.

For what's described in the first post, the Camaro fits the bill perfectly. You can get the same car in everything from Z/28 and ZL1 at the pure performance end, down to the very affordable LS version that still offers great performance for the price. And there are many options in between.

Regarding the thought that track levels of performance aren't needed on the street, of course this is true. But since when is any enthusiast car about need? I have both a Camaro SS and a Corvette (C6, not C7). I don't track them and I will never come close to approaching their true potential on the street. Yet I get great satisfaction driving them, in a way that I wouldn't get if they didn't have all that potential. Is that a rational thinking on my part? Of course, not. But I didn't buy them to be utilitarian transportation. I bought them because they are a bright spot in my day.

But wouldn't you like a Z/28 that was more accessible? I think that's a good example. Who among us doesn't want a Z/28 badge? But that car is literally a track car. So it's just not accessible. I look at it and appreciate how it's the ultimate Camaro, it's mind blowing, but it's almost a supercar, just like the C7, and simply out of reach.

I bet there are tons of guys who've owned Z/28's in the past who won't be getting this one.

I guess I look at the Corvette and Camaro differently. These aren't American supercars. These are the cars you dream about as a boy knowing you can actually afford. You can work hard and buy a Vette, a Ferrari, probably not.

As these cars approach $75,000 they move out of reach for most of us. They're worth every penny. But many of us don't have that many pennies

[snaphappy]

And you know, it's not just a problem of price.

For example, journalists are like "hey this Camaro is too big for the track, it weighs too much, visibility is bad for the track, these seats aren't good enough for the track, the wheels are wrong for the track, etc etc"

See what I'm getting at? They dismiss the Camaro because it's not good for the track. Compare this to how I think - this car is gorgeous, children gather around it when I gas up, it's been the most lust worthy car in America since Transformers, it's so gorgeous it outsells Mustang for the first time in GM's history, it's got a good ride, nice convenience features, it's comfortable, spacious for this much HP, trunk is pretty decent, sounds like Jesus when it starts, has 426hp, omg, beats every car around me off the line.

Journalists do the same thing to the Mustang. They go on and on about how lousy the solid rear axle is for the track. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Get in a base model 5.0 drive that around town and I dare you not to scream out loud for joy. That's a great car. Damn it's fast. Sounds great. Love it. But you're telling me it sucks because you took it on a track?

[trashmanssd]

OP I know what you are getting at, at what point does sport (track) suspension become to tight for street driving. Especially when you live up north as weather gets cold tires get hard and roads develop frost heaves. Even better is when pot holes start to show up every where. what was tight suspension on nice smooth hot July asphalt becomes back breaking kidney rabbit punching non existent suspension.
"Rant alert"
Love when Magazines Like motor trend do a review on sedans and at the end say how they picked the Mercedes AMG Black over the Lexus because while the Lexus is better made and more comfortable and has better ergonomics and so on it just wasn't good on the track during a couple corners at 70-100 miles an hour it was just to soft and unpredictable and the steering was numb. HELLO 99.9 % of 4 door sedan buyers will never push there car past 4/10th and most them would complain that they can fell the road in the steering and consider it unrefined. Don't get me wrong that is exactly the review they should do on a Ferrari 458 and a Mclaren MP4-12C that is there purpose.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by trashmanssd

OP I know what you are getting at, at what point does sport (track) suspension become to tight for street driving. Especially when you live up north as weather gets cold tires get hard and roads develop frost heaves. Even better is when pot holes start to show up every where. what was tight suspension on nice smooth hot July asphalt becomes back breaking kidney rabbit punching non existent suspension.
"Rant alert"
Love when Magazines Like motor trend do a review on sedans and at the end say how they picked the Mercedes AMG Black over the Lexus because while the Lexus is better made and more comfortable and has better ergonomics and so on it just wasn't good on the track during a couple corners at 70-100 miles an hour it was just to soft and unpredictable and the steering was numb. HELLO 99.9 % of 4 door sedan buyers will never push there car past 4/10th and most them would complain that they can fell the road in the steering and consider it unrefined. Don't get me wrong that is exactly the review they should do on a Ferrari 458 and a Mclaren MP4-12C that is there purpose.

I'm totally with you! I subscribe to all the old car magazines on YouTube (it's free) and watch just about every video they make. The sedan reviews are pretty hilarious! They need to get off the track and start talking about what the car was designed for. Not everyone wants an M5.

[MikeSVX]

No, Read a few magazines. Most comparo test include things like ride comfort, head room, interior volume and road noise. Preformance testing does translate to the road. It is easier and safer for the testers to use a track for these tests then doing them on the street. Also, there are many people on here that track there car. The price of the Camaro and all other cars goes up mostly because of inflation and partly because they are adding more comfort features to the car. I got my Camaro in 2010. I didn't have the options of a heads up display, GPS Navigation, and a few other things. You add that stff and the price goes up. The government is also requiring more and more safety features and economy, developing and install these features cost the manufacture money. That cost is trickled down to the buyer.

I read the test results myself and base my own opinion on the facts. I ignor the actual selection of the magazines. Most of them are byasted anyway. It is rare for Road and Track to pick any car over a Porshe. Everyone has there favorites and will pick them over cars that are better. Even here there are many people that would pick the Camaro over other better cars and they have there reasons.

[trashmanssd]

I read Motor Trend ,Truck Trend, Car and Driver, Road and TRACK (the one i expect to be track focused), and Automobile. I try to be open minded about the reviews, but when i see what they have picked and what they said in the articles and how they seem to follow track logic only on all cars. I just have hard time knowing if i should trust there judgement on the stuff that matters to me. Am I to believe his view on the interior ergonomics when he cares more where they put the tap shift or paddle shifter more then where the cup holders are located and how hard it is to reach the radio controls with out leaning or moving in the seat. I enjoy the magazines but at times I laugh at they conclusions they come to. Like the OP stated they review the current Camaro SS and say it handles like a 80's Cadillac its to soft, its allover the place, hard to place in a corner.

[The_Blur]

I've been ranting about this for years. While I disagree about the track performance—considering price point, the Camaro and Corvette both beat cars they have no right to touch—I agree that performance cars are getting unattainable at General Motors. There is nothing below Camaro, and a whole lot above it, including Corvette and CTS-V. The GM lineup lacks entry level performance that competing companies offer. It would be nice to have cheap RWD coupes, but I'd gladly take a Cruze or Sonic with an SS badge.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I've been ranting about this for years. While I disagree about the track performance—considering price point, the Camaro and Corvette both beat cars they have no right to touch—I agree that performance cars are getting unattainable at General Motors. There is nothing below Camaro, and a whole lot above it, including Corvette and CTS-V. The GM lineup lacks entry level performance that competing companies offer. It would be nice to have cheap RWD coupes, but I'd gladly take a Cruze or Sonic with an SS badge.

Good! You keep ranting then! Maybe someone will listen. I can think of a lot classic cars that were A) Good looking B) had big V8s C) Were fast, but not performance fast, not track fast.

By today's standards these cars would be valueless.

It's a shame.

[trashmanssd]

Don't know if you ever watch Top Gear UK. But I love James May's rants about the Nürburgring, and how when a manufacturer sends a car there it always ends up destroying its ride quality on a normal road.

[DGthe3]

So you are saying that GM should build a Camaro for the masses (you also say they should do it for the Corvette ... but lets stick to one car for the moment) with all the great looks, has some get up & go, but without all the expensive high performance hardware.

You do understand that GM offers a V6 Camaro for under 25 grand, right? Looks great, offers decent (but not outstanding) performance, has pretty decent fuel economy, and costs thousands less than the average new car. That is the Camaro for the masses.

Also, I haven't read too many reviews where the Camaro was knocked because of its lack of performance. Often they were impressed by how well it did, and then complained about the lack of visibility, the steering wheel, the plastics in the interior, the poor erogonomics, etc.