Car Performance - For Real People

[snaphappy]

In journalism, everything is about track performance. Everything. Every car is judged by track performance. End of story.

Here's my theory why - it sells, it's more entertaining. Literally. See the video below. Imagine trying to make a video about the C7 going straight - boring. So everything is about the track.

But I just ask myself over and over - who drives on a track? I know a lot of Mustang and Camaro fanboys. A tiny fraction have been to the strip. None have been on the track. So you have all these cars, like the C7, that are designed for astronomical track performance, and you have all these buyers who drive them to Walmart. Stoplight to stoplight.

This especially stinks when it comes to price. The price of these cars just keeps going up. Camaro included.

I wish there was a dumbed down C7. Just for cruising around town. And personally, I hope the next Camaro doesn't follow this craze. I would prefer the Camaro to have a certain look before it performed well on the track. The SS is always beaten up in reviews because of its poor track performance, and I think "God, please don't let the new Camaro be ugly for the sake of some guy's lap time."

PS - dudes who love the track, God bless ya. I'm jealous. Would love to try it out. Really glad y'all have the 1LE, the ZL1, and the Z/28.

But what has the world come to? I have a 426hp SS and reviewers are like, this car sucks; it has oversteer.

[OrangeVert]

SS 426 HP is the best bang for the buck going in my book. :-)

[2012-1822]

I agree a lot with you. I did get the ZL1, and I've been to an 1/8th a dozen or more times with it.

However, I'd love to track it a little. Frankly I can't afford that right now. Sure, I could gas it up and pay the $300-$500 that it would cost for me to go to the road course close to me. It would be a great time. But I'd need special insurance for that event, from my research that's usually about the price of the event again.

But I still can't afford it right now. And the reason is that as much as this car is fun to drive hard, I cannot afford to replace it at this point in my life if I were to trash it on a track, even with insurance. I mean an accident on the street is within normal risk, we all know that can happen, but tracking it ups the ante beyond what I can tolerate right now.

I think it will get worse for the Camaro. My main guess as to why is the new Mustang having independent rear suspension. That was their Achilles heal on the last model and they know is, so they fixed it. So Camaro will have to keep pushing too. That's a great thing for the small percentage that do more than Walmart and stop light as you put it. But also as you put it that means the grocery getters will have to pay more too.

Good conversation starter, thanks for the post.

[SSeniorMoment]

Early in life I drag raced, then spent some time behind the wheel of a built SBC 406, K5 Blazer desert/off road track. 100 mph on the straight line is not that fast, 100 mph in the dirt is fast and more exhilarating for me.

Now it's time for me to mod my Camaro for road courses and it's very challenging for me to do this, especially at this stage in life. It's a rush going deep into a turn and exiting to WOT.

To each their own, and each requires different skill sets.

[snaphappy]

Oh man, I re-read what I posted, and I sound kind of like a douche. It sounds like I'm trashing the C7 and Z/28. I really appreciate what GM has achieved. As far as I can tell, GM has blown everyone away with the C7. Even their harshest critics. And I love watching YouTube reviews and cheering on their advancements.

And hey, maybe when a used C7 is available for $39k I'll switch.

But I think there's a big market for us normal guys who don't need all that racing awesomeness. The best selling C7 would have less tech, lesser performance, and start at $41k. It would still be a bit faster than the SS, not as fast as the ZL1, but it would look just like any other C7. That's my opinion.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by 2012-1822

I agree a lot with you. I did get the ZL1, and I've been to an 1/8th a dozen or more times with it.

However, I'd love to track it a little. Frankly I can't afford that right now. Sure, I could gas it up and pay the $300-$500 that it would cost for me to go to the road course close to me. It would be a great time. But I'd need special insurance for that event, from my research that's usually about the price of the event again.

But I still can't afford it right now. And the reason is that as much as this car is fun to drive hard, I cannot afford to replace it at this point in my life if I were to trash it on a track, even with insurance. I mean an accident on the street is within normal risk, we all know that can happen, but tracking it ups the ante beyond what I can tolerate right now.

I think it will get worse for the Camaro. My main guess as to why is the new Mustang having independent rear suspension. That was their Achilles heal on the last model and they know is, so they fixed it. So Camaro will have to keep pushing too. That's a great thing for the small percentage that do more than Walmart and stop light as you put it. But also as you put it that means the grocery getters will have to pay more too.

Good conversation starter, thanks for the post.

These are amazing points. I hadn't even considered the cost of being a track guy. Next add tires, brakes, who knows what else, wow that's expensive. In that sense, I see why the C7 is $60k. You need a pretty hefty bank account to be a track guy.

God bless y'all! One day maybe I'll be there with ya. If you have that kind of money what a great way to spend it

[thkfast]

Snaphappy, I know exactly what you're saying and it's the same way for us motorcyclists! When I got into motorcycling back in the 80's, bikes were simple, COMFORTABLE and very fast. Little by little, "superbikes" became "sportbikes" and being the kind of rider who needed the latest and greatest, they slowly became unbearable to ride. Anyone who remembers the original Yamaha YZF-R1 (1998), that's the one that made me go WHOA, this hurts! The do-it-all UJM became some alien-looking ultra lightweight high footpeg low bar torture rack, so I stopped trying to "keep up."

At a certain point, you just want to enjoy the ride...there's nothing wrong with a nice driving road car.

[dgriddick]

I totally agree.. GM is already making the nose of the camaro sloped which is ugly and looks like the old tail lights of the 88 Iroc.. look at the comparison to the tail lights before we stopped buying that ugly car sloped nose car.. Im not looking for a Corvette look a like..Most dont buy these to run on a tracks.. they are cruisers.. there is a small group that beats their cars up doing this crap... I agree focus on the 10-13 nose and lights.. stop the drastic changes.. and well keep buying the camaro.. who changes a car that is a top seller every few years... I have no interest in buying a 14 so congrats GM.. youve lost one buyer already

[cal45]

Originally Posted by dgriddick

I totally agree.. GM is already making the nose of the camaro sloped which is ugly and looks like the old tail lights of the 88 Iroc.. look at the comparison to the tail lights before we stopped buying that ugly car sloped nose car.. Im not looking for a Corvette look a like..Most dont buy these to run on a tracks.. they are cruisers.. there is a small group that beats their cars up doing this crap... I agree focus on the 10-13 nose and lights.. stop the drastic changes.. and well keep buying the camaro.. who changes a car that is a top seller every few years... I have no interest in buying a 14 so congrats GM.. youve lost one buyer already

It's OK, GM gained me as there are a lots of us that like the changes and the '69 taillights look.

But back to the OP's topic - I agree. I want the sport car looks but also want the HP & Tq. As far as it being able to be track ready....my car will never see one so I'd rather not have to pay for those options.

[gajagfan]

The things that make the cars perform on the track are why I bought our 1LE for the street (at this point). I do enjoy the immensely improved handling and take advantage of it on a daily bases when it is safe to do so on the roads. This car does things that the WS6 could not do, and that is why we bought it. I want GM to continue to push the envelope on the track, and allow the average guy to purchase that type of technology. I have never seen the need for the lesser performance versions of certain product lines, but after reading your post, I can see there is a need for those cars as well. Good post OP.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by cal45

It's OK, GM gained me as there are a lots of us that like the changes and the '69 taillights look.

But back to the OP's topic - I agree. I want the sport car looks but also want the HP & Tq. As far as it being able to be track ready....my car will never see one so I'd rather not have to pay for those options.

I guess thats why they offer packages like the 1LE, so everyone can get the car they want. I had no interest in halo lights and most of the features of the 2SS package, and you did not want the rougher ride of the 1LE. Looks like GM made some good decisions based on you and me at least.

[snaphappy]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

The things that make the cars perform on the track are why I bought our 1LE for the street (at this point). I do enjoy the immensely improved handling and take advantage of it on a daily bases when it is safe to do so on the roads. This car does things that the WS6 could not do, and that is why we bought it. I want GM to continue to push the envelope on the track, and allow the average guy to purchase that type of technology. I have never seen the need for the lesser performance versions of certain product lines, but after reading your post, I can see there is a need for those cars as well. Good post OP.

The 1LE is something GM did right. It's almost too good. I really like that for $3500 you can get track performance AND a unique look. To me, the look of the 1LE is worth $3500. The good news is, if you can't afford a 1LE, the SS (and the V6 model) are there so you can get the look of a Camaro, and good performance, at a great price. I think that whole paradigm works really well.

But if the next Camaro is a track master, and the 1SS jumps up in price by say $5k, that's going to be tough. In one sense, it will be worth it, of course, but you might end up with a 2SS around $45k then. That's what I'm worried about. A Camaro with a wicked digital instrument cluster, like the C7, with all these different modes, track modes etc, that costs a bit more than it should. All the rich guys will say, "hey, this performance is a bargain" and they'll be right. I just worry some of the rest of us might get left behind

[Zig Zag]

Originally Posted by cal45

It's OK, GM gained me as there are a lots of us that like the changes and the '69 taillights look.

+1 Love the changes
I think GM is moving in the right design direction.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by snaphappy

The 1LE is something GM did right. It's almost too good. I really like that for $3500 you can get track performance AND a unique look. To me, the look of the 1LE is worth $3500. The good news is, if you can't afford a 1LE, the SS (and the V6 model) are there so you can get the look of a Camaro, and good performance, at a great price. I think that whole paradigm works really well.

But if the next Camaro is a track master, and the 1SS jumps up in price by say $5k, that's going to be tough. In one sense, it will be worth it, of course, but you might end up with a 2SS around $45k then. That's what I'm worried about. A Camaro with a wicked digital instrument cluster, like the C7, with all these different modes, track modes etc, that costs a bit more than it should. All the rich guys will say, "hey, this performance is a bargain" and they'll be right. I just worry some of the rest of us might get left behind

I don't think that will happen. I think the need to keep the Camaro line and the Corvette line separate will help keep the price of the Camaro down, and hopefully for all fans of the car, they continue to offer packages that allows a person to get the features they want, and not purchase the features they do not. I often have wondered why they did not offer a ZL1 more set up like a 1SS opposed to the 2SS, but then again saving $3500 on a near $60K car is probably not that appealing to most folks.