Please Think before you post

[PQ]

Ok. So should we stop talking about the slow L99s. If I had never mentioned my car being slow, I never would have gotten the advice I did. It MIGHT be working.

It is very helpful to a lot of us. If the rags and reveiws people make something different out of it then that's not our fault.

Some of the 'issues' that were reported by members were non-issues and speculation but some aren't.

If something happened that I don't know about then disregard this post. I've been aff of the boards the past few days other than responding to PMs and an occasional iPhone post.

[patriotpa]

...and a few out of hundreds of thousands are blowing it all out of proportion. Relax, people.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Ok. So should we stop talking about the slow L99s. If I had never mentioned my car being slow, I never would have gotten the advice I did. It MIGHT be working.

It is very helpful to a lot of us. If the rags and reveiws people make something different out of it then that's not our fault.

Some of the 'issues' that were reported by members were non-issues and speculation but some aren't.

If something happened that I don't know about then disregard this post. I've been aff of the boards the past few days other than responding to PMs and an occasional iPhone post.

I think the way that list was received was wrong, but only because it was presented poorly. That list, as ''damaging'' as it might be when taken to an extreme, was a responsible way of dealing with a first model year car that people are having issues with.


Saying the issues don't exist or not posting on problems on an internet forum isn't going to make your car any more correct, and it isn't going to make the Camaro any more put together. IMO, there should be a more confidential way to distribute a list of common flaws for new Camaro owners... maybe via Mod PM.


And I wouldnt loose too much sleep over how the Good people at General Motors feel about this... We're just pointing out all the things they missed. Not to sound blunt and rude, but it seems as if alot of people are responding as consumers who care more about the producer than the product.

[coolman]

Putting the problems in list form without hearing the explaination from the people that had the problems in the first place makes it seem like it's every car. The other problem with the list is it was intended for someone to go over the car at time of delievery. This was a joke because most of the problems wouldn't show up then anyhow. A person can make a more informed opinion about a problem If they read it right from the people It happened to. This car got put so far up a pedastole that I think everyone thought it was going to be perfect and when it wasn't things got blown out of porportion.

[fbodfather]

Here's the deal.....

A few well-intentioned people thought a thread with 'all known problems' with the new Camaro would be a great idea.........

..........the problem is that several sites have picked it up --published it without ANY context..... and frankly some consumer sites are saying "don't buy the car -- it's riddled with problems...." (...if you were to stumble across the list, it would raise your eyebrows as well.....) (........now if only other enthusiast sites for Toyota and Honda and everyone else would be so 'helpful' by posting the issues that those manufacturers have....and if only consumer sites would pick them up as well.........)


As to someone saying something along the lines of "if we don't talk about it here, GM won't know about it.." Not true.

First -- we're calling owners to discuss the car. We want to know your thoughts and we want to know about any problems you've encountered......

Second - we have almost a thousand cars in Captive Test Fleet -- as a driver of a CTF car - you MUST call in to OnStar at least twice a week and report ANY issue or problem --

Third -- we're monitoring warranty claims - as soon as something happens, we know about it......


I think the starter cable may have been the fastest recall ever performed by any manufacturer.....


Yes - we want to fix any known issue -- but I don't know that any of us benefit from a consumer site telling people not to buy a Camaro.

(...can you say 'resale value?' )

As to the L99 issue -- we will get to the bottom of the issue -- but we have been working 24/7 on all quality issues as well as the Tremec Issue. (we have a few less employees than we had a year ago.....)

Sorry if I'm coming off a bit strong.....it's late -- it's been a long day/month/year.....

I guess it all comes down to this: We (that's you and me) need to think sometimes before we hit "send"......

[bobby35ny]

I KNEW that list was going to be pulled!, Good thing I saved it.

Good job Scott, I'm sure the L99 guys will feel better now. They are getting very fustrated with thier dealers.

-bobby

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

I completely understood the whole point of the thread, HOWEVER....

What WE understand and how OTHERS view it, are two completely different things.

I mean...I was freaking EMBARRASSED when that his consumer reports and edmunds and here we are thinking, "oh crap." We are sitting here doing our very best to help GM promote this car that we love...and then we tear it all down with one thread.

The answer is:

YES

You all know that some sales were hurt because of this...

...not to mention the heart attacks that some folks at GM got and, I'm sure, are STILL dealing with...

I happen to feel the thread was informative and was self explanatory in the first post that most of the issues faced may have occurred only a few times. It does look worse than it is though all together. Perhaps the checklist could have been divided up into sections like "1-5 vehicles affected on this forum", 20 vehicles affected..etc..right next to the problem.. Erasing the thread does not make those problems go away.. It is simply hiding them from everyone who should have something to look out for when they pick up their car. As for it hurting sales, how is that possible at this point with every car being sold that lands on the lots. Crazy mark-ups are more to blame for slowing of sales more so than a checklist of problems.

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Here's the deal.....

A few well-intentioned people thought a thread with 'all known problems' with the new Camaro would be a great idea.........

..........the problem is that several sites have picked it up --published it without ANY context..... and frankly some consumer sites are saying "don't buy the car -- it's riddled with problems...." (...if you were to stumble across the list, it would raise your eyebrows as well.....) (........now if only other enthusiast sites for Toyota and Honda and everyone else would be so 'helpful' by posting the issues that those manufacturers have....and if only consumer sites would pick them up as well.........)


As to someone saying something along the lines of "if we don't talk about it here, GM won't know about it.." Not true.

First -- we're calling owners to discuss the car. We want to know your thoughts and we want to know about any problems you've encountered......

Second - we have almost a thousand cars in Captive Test Fleet -- as a driver of a CTF car - you MUST call in to OnStar at least twice a week and report ANY issue or problem --

Third -- we're monitoring warranty claims - as soon as something happens, we know about it......


I think the starter cable may have been the fastest recall ever performed by any manufacturer.....


Yes - we want to fix any known issue -- but I don't know that any of us benefit from a consumer site telling people not to buy a Camaro.

(...can you say 'resale value?' )

As to the L99 issue -- we will get to the bottom of the issue -- but we have been working 24/7 on all quality issues as well as the Tremec Issue. (we have a few less employees than we had a year ago.....)

Sorry if I'm coming off a bit strong.....it's late -- it's been a long day/month/year.....

I guess it all comes down to this: We (that's you and me) need to think sometimes before we hit "send"......

Hi Scott,

I call GM's phone number and they haven't got a clue whether or not my car is affected or not by the Tremec issue. Affected or not, those of us should get a phone call or perhaps a message placed in our file so that when we do call up GM's customer service center in India, they can respond to us with some information. In your post, you mention people are working on the L99 issue and the Tremec issue however if we don't hear that from you, we are all in the dark as GM customers. This phone call we are supposed to receive if GM finds out we have a Tremec problem is causing a waiting game for all of us who have manuals and have been fortunate enough to have read about firsthand accounts of the issue. GM and my dealer has not called me up to let me know of a potential problem or to take it easy while driving by not using the launch control feature. Not everyone is a member of this forum who owns a Camaro so not everyone would know about this issue. Scott, all I am asking is that if our vehicles are not affected, let there be a way to let us know rather than "you don't get a call". If its a message in a computer, a VIN range that is affected, or better yet a phone call saying we aren't affected by the issue, thank you for supporting GM.. That would be great.. And Scott, thanks for coming on here and helping us out, we all appreciate it.

Originally Posted by irpq11

Ok. So should we stop talking about the slow L99s. If I had never mentioned my car being slow, I never would have gotten the advice I did. It MIGHT be working.

It is very helpful to a lot of us. If the rags and reveiws people make something different out of it then that's not our fault.

Some of the 'issues' that were reported by members were non-issues and speculation but some aren't.

If something happened that I don't know about then disregard this post. I've been aff of the boards the past few days other than responding to PMs and an occasional iPhone post.

IRPQ11,

I have to agree with you that the most helpful aspect of this site before and after getting my camaro has been its members like yourself that had to start a campaign about a potential problem affecting the L99's in order for GM to take notice. And now they are. What you may have missed was the checklist thread of problems being erased since other websites around the internet like this one published it making the Camaro look bad. For example (hXXp://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/camaro5-new-camaro-pre-delivery-checklist-under-construction/) This is one of them I found after doing a quick search. The checklist itself should have been divided up into frequency of issues and perhaps issues that dealers can quickly take care of as well.. Another are of the list would be problems that are unknowns yet such as the L99's and Tremec issues.. I definitely know it would be helpful to have a list of affected Tremec and L99 issue VINS's that are in this forum all in one thread as it would help us all find out if our VIN numbers are close so we could watch out since we have received no info from GM directly about this issue.. We all have to stick together in this and keep on helping each other out in figuring out problems together. Silencing problems only keeps others from knowing the truth about what is going on until it may be too late. The title of this thread is "please think before you post" as in think of the ramifications of posting a list of known issues with the camaro as it can cause bad publicity to the car and company". So far the Camaro has been an overwhelming success and the more they are in the streets, the more people want them. I do believe we should be able to discuss these issues freely that are occurring without any fear and as far as I know we still can. We just can't have them all in one thread.

Originally Posted by JUSTINASS

I actually liked the checklist issue thread...I know there will be problems with a first run car...any maker....I would like to see what issues others are having so I can keep an eye out for them...
those guys bashing the camaro would do it anyway...espcially with the GM bailout and tensions w/ the auto industry in general...
GM could be in a win/win situation w/ the Camro and a lose/lose situation at the same time...

When I picked up my car at the dealer, I had already paid for it at the time since it was a drop ship.. However I looked it over real fast and at first did not notice anything that stuck out. So far I have discovered the whole front dash to be misaligned on both sides however since both are misaligned in the same manner, I will probably leave it alone. I am taking my car to my personal mechanic and taking the checklist of issues with me and look over the bolts and so forth to see if everything has been tightened properly. I am hearing a clunking noise when shifting gears but will let my mechanic drive the car and listen for problems. This is a family friend mechanic btw so if there is an issue I will take it to the nearest Chevy dealer for warranty work. Besides the alignment issue and clunking sounds, the car is running well and is fun to drive. I am still worried about the Tremec issue and hopefully get a response soon from GM about it. Anybody reading this thread, just know the Camaro is a great GM product and don't let any list of issues stop you from buying the car. Simply know that with every new car there are problems and GM is working on fixing all of them.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by Moose

[diddiyo]

naaah, too easy.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I'm sure the L99 guys will feel better now. They are getting very fustrated with thier dealers.

-bobby

[Mr. Wyndham]

I don't blame the OP for that thread. It was a great idea...unfortunately, the whole situation turned into one big clusterf**k...:(

Sometimes, I think we underestimate the impact we here at Camaro5.com can have. For better or worse, we're one of the largest 5thgen Camaro sites out there...so you can all trust we're being watched very closely by anyone with a vested interest in the new Camaro. Don't refrain from posting things because of this -- that would be totally counter-productive....just maybe consider the context in which you post things.

Then there are some folks that seem to get a kick out of making a mountain out of mole-hill, or hauling false accusations at "the establishment"...sometimes...amendment #1 can be abused...:(

Anyways...while folks not thinking before they post cause unintended consequences...don't feel too down about it. We're still here, and members are still receiving their great new Camaros! So for ever sale we may have lost GM due to that list, we still have a huge chance to gain them back.

[nasty2ss]

Originally Posted by coolman

Putting the problems in list form without hearing the explaination from the people that had the problems in the first place makes it seem like it's every car. The other problem with the list is it was intended for someone to go over the car at time of delievery. This was a joke because most of the problems wouldn't show up then anyhow. A person can make a more informed opinion about a problem If they read it right from the people It happened to. This car got put so far up a pedastole that I think everyone thought it was going to be perfect and when it wasn't things got blown out of porportion.

My car is perfect

[bobby35ny]

Here's some food for thought, just throwing it out there so mods behave....
It's OK, to post about a bad dealer for gouging the price or bad service. But its not OK if something gets posted if it somehow sheds a bad light on GM?

To me, its a win-win. The dealer MIGHT get thier act together and fix thier wrongs if it out there and the same goes for GM.
What GM should have done was reply to that checklist and said FIXED AT FACTORY on each issue that was corrected...

=Bobby

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Here's some food for thought, just throwing it out there so mods behave....
It's OK, to post about a bad dealer for gouging the price or bad service. But its not OK if something gets posted if it somehow sheds a bad light on GM?

To me, its a win-win. The dealer MIGHT get thier act together and fix thier wrongs if it out there and the same goes for GM.

=Bobby

A dealer is a much smaller corporation than GM.

Furthermore, everything a dealer does is not subject to public scrutiny.

If GM messes up on anything, you can be sure it'll be headline news.