Ed Welburn Calls Out Lincoln

[CamaroDreams07]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

You don't need to get mad when someone disagrees with you. If you prefer Lincoln, that's fine and that's all that should matter to you.

Not mad at all. We actually did our research and compared them extensively and bought the best car, going outside of GM for the first time in our family's history (read: since GM was founded)

I just don't get when people post a bunch of exterior photos and then say Cadillac wins...not sure what the criteria is. Its a GM centered forum and I get that. No skin off my back.

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[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I see it this way.

ATS/CTS are constantly being compared to the Germans. Every review has the 3-series or 5-series/E-class in it somewhere. And quite often, those reviews include a line like, "Cadillac has out-German-ed the Germans."

Meanwhile, I'll just flip open the MotorTrend magazine I got in the mail today (which is the Car of the Year edition, oh, and has a CTS on the front, by the way) to their segment on the MKZ (which is a fine car).



Cadillac is being compared to BMW and Mercedes. Lincoln is being compared...to Ford.

I was waiting for that magazine to come in all week. Going to go read mine now.

[Silverlsinva]

I don't have a problem with that statement at all. Does Lincoln even have a rear drive car anymore and if you see the new Lincoln commercials they are going for the lexus buyers. Don't get me wrong Lincoln has some nice looking cars and prolly perform alright but they aren't on par with Caddy at all.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

They're cheaper, sure. And they might offer the same or more options/feature. But ticking a bunch of boxes does not a luxury car make. Most luxury features you can name can be found in entry level brands. Its not the 'stuff' that makes a car luxury. Its the vibe that the car has.

Lincoln is still a few steps behind Cadillac at being a legitimate luxury brand, and Cadillac itself still hasn't quite gotten up to being on par with the Germans. It'll take at least another generation of vehicles to get there, if not two.

And on top of all that, there is no way that it can be argued that Lincoln is a global brand when they're only sold in North America.

Well, to be honest Lincoln sells cars in some 30 countries from Korea, to most of the Middle East, and as you've stated North and Central America. Also all American territories, including all the Pacific Islands, and coming next year China and southeast Asia.

[trademaster]

I agree Lincoln doesn't really compete with Cadillac, but neither are true global luxury brands. Mercedes, Audi and BMW are really in a whole different league globally. Cadillac has made great strides, but they're not quite there yet.

[motorhead]

I look at Lincoln more along the lines of Lexas and Acura. Just over price models of the standard models they are made from. Caddys have done well at making their own identy and separating themselves from being just overpriced Chevys.

[LostPony]

I would agree that Lincoln is not a competitor with Cadillac. GM had done an outstanding job of improving the brand with that division. Ford on the other hand has seemed to not know what they want to do with Lincoln. Lincoln buyers weren't ready for cars like the LS, so Ford gave up, instead of targeting a new audience. Cadillac on the other hand has embraced going after the high end German makes and their customers.

Just as an aside, I enjoy driving the Town Car. I use one at the track as a get around car, and even toy with the idea one for a daily driver. But I know that it's not a car that will return Lincoln to the level it needs to be to compete. I just like the plushy ride, and making people freak when they see me sliding it around the track or on the skid pad.

[The_Blur]

Lincoln is not on Cadillac's level. GM should continue to confidently establish who is appropriate competition through comments like this and, more importantly, side-by-side marketing that demonstrates the quality of the Cadillac brand when compared to real luxury competition, like Audi, Mercedez-Benz, and BMW.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

...

If you came to my business office and randomly ask 20 executives to name the top three luxury brands they would consider buying, I would bet neither Cadillac nor Licoln makes the list of 98% of the respondents. Both need to make big strides to ever compete with the true global luxury offerings.

Cadillac is making the necessary strides and they still continue to do so. You don't just change the public's opinion overnight by introducing a few new world class vehicles but its the best start. Cadillac has done that and will continue to release more. It takes time for the public to learn of what your doing, and for the old stigmas to wear off.

[Scrappy Doo]

Mom has a ecoboost mks. Loves it.

She's 70.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Enough said.

Lincolns are nice. But they're not on Cadillac's level by a long shot.

True enough. I may have always liked Mustangs and Camaros equally, but I used to be a Lincoln over Caddy guy… big time. But not anymore, GM has totally outgunned Ford in this category, and is doing an amazing job of showing up the Europeans. Props to GM for resurrecting the Cadillac brand so well.

[shaffe]

I agree. I do not see Lincoln as competitor to the Cadillac. GM has taken Cadillac to a whole new level with how good their products are. Cadillac blows GM away in just about every segment they "compete" in.

I will admit I am more of a Ford guy, but Lincoln really needs to step up their game big time. There are only 2 vehicles in Lincoln's lineup that I would even consider, the MKX and thats a real stretch. After seeing the new MKC though, that SUV has peaked my interest if I was looking into a Luxury SUV. It looks vastly different than the escape its based on, and the interior is really nice. But the MKS and MKZ there is nothing special about them IMO. The Navigator is so outdated and ancient, and the MKT is an abomination bastard child that is one of the ugliest cars on the road.

I hope that seeing the success GM is having with Cadillac forces Ford to really step up their game with Lincoln.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I look at Lincoln more along the lines of Lexas and Acura. Just over price models of the standard models they are made from. Caddys have done well at making their own identy and separating themselves from being just overpriced Chevys.

I wouldn't lump Lexus in with that group. Lexus is a hurdle for Cadillac presently. The LS line easily competes with 7-series, A8, and S class while blowing away anything from Cadillac.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by trademaster

I wouldn't lump Lexus in with that group. Lexus is a hurdle for Cadillac presently. The LS line easily competes with 7-series, A8, and S class while blowing away anything from Cadillac.

I would say Cadillac has easily beaten Lexus with the CTS and ATS (the only segments that they compete in).