How To Avoid a Ticket

[Spartan01]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Plain sight and warrantless search are two very different things. And yes, if an officer decides to tell me he has probable cause to search my vehicle, then I will inform him what he will find.

That being said, you have to be acting 10 shades of suspicious for an officer to get to the point of a warrantless search.

TECHNICALLY you are correct.
But as I said this is entirely subjective to the officer's training, and "spidey sense tingling."
My point in this matter was that the cop does need a reason, but it is very difficult to prove that he was making the reason up and that you were not suspicious.
I DID forget to mention that if your center console is LOCKED, then that counts as "Curtilage," and you do in fact have an expectation to privacy, and he cannot search without a warrant, same as the trunk.



If I follow all of the above procedures outlined in the OP, and act courteous to the officer, and do all of that EXCEPT tell him I have a gun in the car, then the officer has absolutely zero probable cause to perform a warrantless search of my vehicle. Period.

Again, you are right. But all this is really for when you go to court, and generally Not at the scene of the traffic stop.
Also, I am not talking about a warrantless search of the entire vehicle. i am talking about searching the car in the immediate seating area, this includes under the seat, usually the center console (unless locked,) door pockets, anywhere the driver can reach.
Also I dont have to prove that you were acting suspicious, only that I felt my saftey was in jeopardy, or that I saw something that could be a weapon or contraband. For this I don NOT NEED PROBABLE CAUSE, only REASONABLE SUSPICION. Same for a TERRY STOP.

Again, you ARE making some EXCELLENT points, and I do agree with you, but my purpose was to break down how things work on the street, vs the lofty notions of an appeals court.

As I understand it, "printing" is generally in reference to being able to notice where someone is concealing their firearm based on subtle bulges in their attire. That becomes a little more difficult when someone is seated inside a vehicle performing all of the OP's outlined behavioral patterns. It becomes impossible when the firearm the person has is completely concealed inside a center console.

Again, you are correct.
Printing is generally referenced to subtle bulges. But you may be surprised to learn how much many people give away by body language, tone, subtle movements etc. You would probably be surprised at how many CCW holders forget to inform the officer, and carry their weapon on their belt which the "prints" as they lean over to open the glove box to get their papers.
I did just lump all of this stuff into the "printing" category for the sake of expediency.

Believe me, I absolutely understand that your job requires you to meet all sorts of people in many cases on the worst day of their lives. And for that reason alone, I don't feel it worth my time to give you any attitude other than calm and courteous. I wouldn't want someone intentionally berating me just for doing my job. Therefore, I have no intention of berating an officer just because he caught me red-handed going a few miles over the speed limit.

That being said, if I get caught going five over, that doesn't mean I need to bring up something that is completely unrelated to the stop at hand. In my opinion, if it is legal for me to have something in my car, then what use is it to bring it up? A firearm, without my hand on it, is just a hunk of metal. If I have a baseball bat, hammer or tire iron in the back seat, should I also inform the officer of those weapons as well, even though it's perfectly legal for me to own them and have them in my vehicle?

I fully understand that you think it's considered a courtesy to inform you that I have a firearm in my car, but isn't vocally proclaiming that you have a weapon considered a crime because you are effectively "brandishing" that fact openly?

No, (check your local jurisdiction for the exact def. of brandishing) I wouldnt think so.
And also please understand, its not JUST that it is a courtesy, I am PRO GUN, so if you are a law abiding citizen, who has a legal CCW and you let me know that you were carrying a loaded weapon, I was very likely to be extra lenient.
Also, what I would do is this (I'm pretty sure it is in my first post,)
Hold both hands out the window.
(This lets the officer know AS HE IS APPROACHING your car that something is going on,)
When he approaches,
in a calm, in a clear voice, inform him "Officer, I have a weapon. I have a permit for it. The weapon is located on my XXX (right hip, left ankle, wherever,) I just want you to know this up fron for your safety and mine."
or words to this direct effect.

A lot of things are going on when you do this:
1.) You are letting the officer know he is relatively safe, and that you are a cool law abiding citizen.
2.) You are acknowledging the fact that the officer is in charge. You are letting him know he is relatively safe, and stroking his ego.
Most cops are pretty cool but a good number of them are D-bags and bullies. This technique is simply a way to help (probably) avoid a ticket.
That's why i started this thread, because nobody ever told me any of this stuff when I was a young man with a sports car,(long before I was ever a cop)
I had to learn the hard way.

[CamaroSkooter]

I feel like sticking my hands out the window seems a bit over the top, though.

It seems like an action that's almost as though it's forcing the officer to think in his mind, "what the hell is this idiot doing?!"

I dunno, I've thought about this a lot trying to imagine myself in both places, and it almost seems like moving your pinky a fraction of an inch could be interpreted as anything depending how uptight an individual is.

But as with anything, every situation is different and has a slew of varying circumstances. Your best bet is just to treat the officer how you would want anyone else to treat you. Golden rule.

Put yourself in their shoes and truly imagine what it must feel like to walk up to a complete strangers vehicle to have a conversation with them about a law they just broke right in front of you, knowing that literally ANYthing can happen. The more you can do to convince them you have absolutely zero intent of doing them harm, the better off you'll be

[Green Machine]

I hate dealing with officers and try to avoid it as much as possible. Sometimes hard to do as DOT is everywhere for me. Even though I hate officers I still put on s smile and welcome each one with a positive attitude.

Sent from the road.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Green Machine

I hate dealing with officers and try to avoid it as much as possible. Sometimes hard to do as DOT is everywhere for me. Even though I hate officers I still put on s smile and welcome each one with a positive attitude.

Sent from the road.

You do realize statements like that are incredibly ignorant, right?

That's like me saying, "I hate all computer programmers but I still put on a smile and welcome each one with a positive attitude."

If you've had a bad experience with an officer or multiple officers in the past, that's very unfortunate. But making general assumptions about all officers based on your very narrow experience with one or two in your past is hardly logical or productive.

[TOYMARO]

Originally Posted by Maxspeed

If I am legally carrying a concealed firearm, do I volunteer this info or wait until I have been asked?

I ALWAYS inform the cop that im carying!! No hands out the window, they are at 10/2 and dont move untill told to do so. I carry to the grocery store so........

I really feel NOT informing him is very bad....and possibly a way to get shot due to "movements" towards a gun that he was not aware of UNTILL you reached for it because it was in the area of your wallet. Seems pretty logical and very easily could happen.

Seems common sense to me.

Overall a good post. But at MY age (44), almost all is common sense. Good for the youngins though.......we all know they dont have much

[Green Machine]

Oh I am fo very sorry to offend you /sarcasm.

Sorry, im on my phone and forgot to put dealing after the hate in the last sentence.

Although I have had a narrow experience with officers I've had more then a dozen interactions with various ones across the lower 48.

Like I meant to say, I hate dealing with officers and not hating the officers themselves. Sorry you could only take one small part of my post and call me ignorant, which I'm not denying I can be at times.

Sent from the road.

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Green Machine

Oh I am fo very sorry to offend you /sarcasm.

Sorry, im on my phone and forgot to put dealing after the hate in the last sentence.

Although I have had a narrow experience with officers I've had more then a dozen interactions with various ones across the lower 48.

Like I meant to say, I hate dealing with officers and not hating the officers themselves. Sorry you could only take one small part of my post and call me ignorant, which I'm not denying I can be at times.

Sent from the road.

I was calling that statement ignorant. When you omit one word, it takes on a very different meaning. Now that I know it was an error, you can be rest assured that I agree with you.

I hate dealing with officers too. But usually, I only hate the interaction because it's caused by my own self-inflicted stupidity (speeding, rolling through a stop sign, etc.) and has nothing to do with the officer.

[Spartan01]

TO THE WHOLE BOARD...
Um, OK< so I may have forgotten to mention that when I was a cop, I was in South East DC, and lived in the People's Republic of Marylandistan- both of which are VERY anti gun, and have a ludicrously difficult to obtain CCW program. Letting the officer know you are carrying was also mandatory, hence my kind of extreme views on the subject.