Dodge's answer to the Z/28

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

It's going to need a lot more then power to match either the ZL1 or the Z/28 at what they are built for. Both are meant to be corner carvers, not straight line screamers. It looks like its targeting straight at the GT500 with the horsepower numbers they are speculating. The don't mention anything about suspension tuning.

There will be MAJOR suspension revisions. This is a a lot more than a refresh, at least under the skin. Any remaining parts from Daimler benz's E class design will be shunned, new materials will be used, the floorpan is being redone to fit the 8 speed automatic, there will be bigger brakes, and the interior will be heavily upgraded to bring it inline with also refreshed for 15 Charger and 300. With both the platform and engine supposedly considably lighter afterwards it may get close to the Z28s weight which i believe is around 3800 pounds, but the most I really see is it splitting the difference between the Z28 and ZL1.

[KMPrenger]

Motortrend posted a similar article. In it, they mentioned the Z/28 as well, a long with BOSS and GT500.

I don't get why they believe this car is gunning for the Z/28?? Its obviously meant to compete with the ZL1 and the GT500.

No way it will hang with the Z/28 on a track.

Unless Stew is correct and they are COMPLETELY revamping everything about the car, there is no way it will hang with the Z/28. They are going to have to lose 500+ lbs from that car. Not happening without MAJOR design changes. We'd be looking at another 60 - 70K car if not more.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Motortrend posted a similar article. In it, they mentioned the Z/28 as well, a long with BOSS and GT500.

I don't get why they believe this car is gunning for the Z/28?? Its obviously meant to compete with the ZL1 and the GT500.

No way it will hang with the Z/28 on a track.

Unless Stew is correct and they are COMPLETELY revamping everything about the car, there is no way it will hang with the Z/28. They are going to have to lose 500+ lbs from that car. Not happening without MAJOR design changes. We'd be looking at another 60 - 70K car if not more.

I agree I believe the next generation will be lighter but the current design just like you suggested was meant to be a straight line car. Triple Mode and all you cannot overcome the displacement to weight ratio in cornering

[evh5150vanhalen]

Minimal weight loss, split grill and tail lights like te 1971 Challenger, inner and outer halo lights, dash similar to te Charger but with the programable display from the dart, new seats....

[trademaster]

A day late and a dollar short as always. I love the look of the Challenger, but Dodge has a serious problem with staying ahead of the curve.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by trademaster

A day late and a dollar short as always. I love the look of the Challenger, but Dodge has a serious problem with staying ahead of the curve.

How is that the Challenger was the first retro car retintroduced (it was announced before the Mustang)? The first to offer performance above 400 HP. The first to offer a track pack. The first to introduce an eight speed transmission. The first to offer the same manual trans you have in the Camaro. The first to introduce HID headlights in the retro design. The first to introduce a full entertainment system.

I am confused by you assertion that they needed the SC engine to stay ahead of the curve. Just a FYI before 2008 they were on track to reintroduce the replacement for the Challenger. Still I do not see where Dodge is behind.

[joeybsyc]

Originally Posted by 05stram

How is that the Challenger was the first retro car retintroduced (it was announced before the Mustang)? The first to offer performance above 400 HP. The first to offer a track pack. The first to introduce an eight speed transmission. The first to offer the same manual trans you have in the Camaro. The first to introduce HID headlights in the retro design. The first to introduce a full entertainment system.

I am confused by you assertion that they needed the SC engine to stay ahead of the curve. Just a FYI before 2008 they were on track to reintroduce the replacement for the Challenger. Still I do not see where Dodge is behind.

Me either... I'm a Camaro guy and Chevy guy through and through, but there's no question the Challenger was first to the party...and there's something to be said for waiting out the competition. Remember when the ZL1 was announced and shortly after the GT500 blew the wind right out of it's sails. Now that Dodge has seen everyone elses cards, they know exactly how high they need to aim their sights. Yes it's big and heavy, but it's also got more room than either the Mustang or the Camaro (which is no lightweight itself) Dodge will undoubtedly build a rocket that will not be something to take lightly. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by 05stram

How is that the Challenger was the first retro car retintroduced (it was announced before the Mustang)? The first to offer performance above 400 HP. The first to offer a track pack. The first to introduce an eight speed transmission. The first to offer the same manual trans you have in the Camaro. The first to introduce HID headlights in the retro design. The first to introduce a full entertainment system.

I am confused by you assertion that they needed the SC engine to stay ahead of the curve. Just a FYI before 2008 they were on track to reintroduce the replacement for the Challenger. Still I do not see where Dodge is behind.

Uhhh, a ton of your information is just plain false. The third generation Challenger was introduced at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show after the s197 Mustang had already been on sale to the public for a year having been introduced at NAIS way back in 2003 and sold to the public starting as a 2005 model year. The Challenger was not actually offered to the public for over three years after the retro Mustang went on sale in '05. The GT500 broke the 400hp mark by 100hp in 2007, again before the Challenger was even on dealer lots in any form. The 2007 GT500 also came with the tr6060, the 6-speed manual you are referring to. HIDs were also available on the Mustang in 2008, same time as the Challenger became available. That first year of '08 Challengers consisted purely of SRTs which were directly comparable to the '08 GT500 in price (about $41k base price for each), but down considerably in horsepower.

About the only first that can be attributed to the Challenger is the 8-speed automatic. Now Dodge is introducing a top-tier Challenger after the zl1 and gt500 have been battling it out for a couple years and the next generation Mustang and Camaro are just around the corner.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

Wrong again.

Actually with the exception of the V6 it does. I think he needs to clarify "beat", on a road course yes, on the drag strip no. Generally Speaking...

Edit: in my opinion the 1LE is the best performance coupe on the market right now for the money.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Uhhh, a ton of your information is just plain false. The third generation Challenger was introduced at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show after the s197 Mustang had already been on sale to the public for a year having been introduced at NAIS way back in 2003 and sold to the public starting as a 2005 model year. The Challenger was not actually offered to the public for over three years after the retro Mustang went on sale in '05. The GT500 broke the 400hp mark by 100hp in 2007, again before the Challenger was even on dealer lots in any form. The 2007 GT500 also came with the tr6060, the 6-speed manual you are referring to. HIDs were also available on the Mustang in 2008, same time as the Challenger became available.

About the only first that can be attributed to the Challenger is the 8-speed automatic. Now Dodge is introducing a top-tier Challenger after the zl1 and gt500 have been battling it out for a couple years and the next generation Mustang and Camaro are just around the corner.

Uhhh read up on projects shelved from MPP/Direct Connection concepts by Diamler. 2002 when SRT came back online to replace MPP as the performance division the project never resurfaced

The mustang came with the TR 3650 5 speed not six speed.
The six speed tranny came from Dodge as a factory installed option not a third party derived performance package. However the same tranny was used by Dodge in the SRT line prior in the trucks and the Viper.

HIDs OK we can call a tie even though the GT still it was not standard like the SRT8.


Shelby GT500s well if you want to compare apples to apples then you should be comparing Shelbys to Hennessey Challengers. Which still had the Mustang by 50+ HP. Before you start by saying the Mustangs were built online I will suggest if Ford would of done it then the GT500 would of been rereleased as the SVT Mustang and not the GT500. We all know they were assembled with the re calibrated 5.4 at Flat Rock.

May want to read up the next generation from Dodge is around the corner as well.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by truth411

Actually with the exception of the V6 it does. I think he needs to clarify "beat", on a road course yes, on the drag strip no. Generally Speaking...

Edit: in my opinion the 1LE is the best performance coupe on the market right now for the money.

the 1LE is just a beast in sheep's clothing and for the price point nothing touches it.

Here come the BOSS Mustang folks I know but lets go to the track with both and see which is best at all tracks.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by 05stram

Uhhh read up on projects shelved from MPP/Direct Connection concepts by Diamler. 2002 when SRT came back online to replace MPP as the performance division the project never resurfaced

A shelved project means nothing to consumers. Concepts and ideas don't make drivable cars for consumers. GM had a 16-cylinder 1,000hp Cadillac Sixteen at the DAS once.

The mustang came with the TR 3650 5 speed not six speed.
The six speed tranny came from Dodge as a factory installed option not a third party derived performance package. However the same tranny was used by Dodge in the SRT line prior in the trucks and the Viper.

The tr6060 was factory installed in the GT500.

HIDs OK we can call a tie even though the GT still it was not standard like the SRT8.

Shelby GT500s well if you want to compare apples to apples then you should be comparing Shelbys to Hennessey Challengers. Which still had the Mustang by 50+ HP. Before you start by saying the Mustangs were built online I will suggest if Ford would of done it then the GT500 would of been rereleased as the SVT Mustang and not the GT500. We all know they were assembled with the re calibrated 5.4 at Flat Rock.

That's a really weak argument. SVT did design the GT500 and it is built alongside all other Mustangs. The GT500 is Shelby in name only as a marketing point. The GT500 is not like a Hennessey or Saleen because it never leaves the factory before going to dealerships. By definition it is not an aftermarket vehicle like the cars you are talking about. It is a factory designed and produced Mustang like the GT and base model.

May want to read up the next generation from Dodge is around the corner as well.

Sure, but around the corner for the Mustang is 2015, when the Challenger in question is slated to be released. The Camaro is supposed to only be a year behind the Mustang. This car will just be hitting the streets when the new generation of Mustang and Camaro start hitting dealers.

[sspolo]

Originally Posted by truth411

Actually with the exception of the V6 it does. I think he needs to clarify "beat", on a road course yes, on the drag strip no. Generally Speaking...

Edit: in my opinion the 1LE is the best performance coupe on the market right now for the money.

Yes, since the thread was speaking about the Z/28 I meant it in a road course, not the drag strip.

[05stram]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Sure, but around the corner for the Mustang is 2015, when the Challenger in question is slated to be released. The Camaro is supposed to only be a year behind the Mustang. This car will just be hitting the streets when the new generation of Mustang and Camaro start hitting dealers.

Your view of concepts speaks volumes.