Plane Nerds Thread

[theragtopguy]

Fantastic pictures.....love the old planes, especially the old WW1 fighters.

[MLL67RSSS]

Sorry if this has been covered, I got to page ten and gave up!

I've seen numerous referrals to the P-38 Lightning, a.k.a. "the Forked Tailed Devil."

Anyone know what made it a superior air combat plane?

All aircraft with a single inline piston engine had one unique drawback, the reciprocating crankshaft/rod/piston assembly in the engine created a gyroscopic effect which caused the plane to not be able to turn as tight a turn in one direction. The P-38 had counter-rotating engine that cancelled this effect, it could turn just as tight a turn in both directions. This greatly benefited the plane in aerial dogfights!

As for the B-25 my dad was in the 10AF, 12th Bomb group, 81st Squadron and flew B-25's in WWII. According to him the design of the plane, with a vertical stabilizer directly behind each engine, made it the "sweetest flying bomber" in the air. Said that once trimmed out it would darn near fly itself (He'd done some training on B-24/B-17's). One of the other interesting things he'd mentioned was the B-25G was equipped a 75mm M4 cannon. He said when you'd fire that big 'ole thing the recoil made it feel like the plane "paused" in the air momentarily.



Also if you're ever in Tuscon, you need to take the bus tour of AMARG a.k.a. AMARC. The nearby Pima Air and Space Museum (also a "must see") has them available Mon-Fri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th_A...neration_Group

"AMARG is a controlled-access site, and is off-limits to anyone not employed there without the proper clearance. The only access for non-cleared individuals is via a bus tour which is conducted by the nearby Pima Air & Space Museum. Bus tours are Monday through Friday only."

[ripcard]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

...I've seen numerous referrals to the P-38 Lightning, a.k.a. "the Forked Tailed Devil."

Anyone know what made it a superior air combat plane?

All aircraft with a single inline piston engine had one unique drawback, the reciprocating crankshaft/rod/piston assembly in the engine created a gyroscopic effect which caused the plane to not be able to turn as tight a turn in one direction. The P-38 had counter-rotating engine that cancelled this effect, it could turn just as tight a turn in both directions. This greatly benefited the plane in aerial dogfights!...

I just want to clarify your statement a little.

The engine rotating assy. in a single engine fighter has an effect on roll rate not the degree of turn capability. The plane will still turn as much in either direction, it just can't roll as fast in the one opposite to it's engine rotating assy.'s direction. When rolling in the same direction as the engine rotating assy., the planes roll rate increases. The pilot can use this to advantage. A large twin boom, twin engine fighter would not roll faster than a single engine fighter no matter which way the engines are rotating. Think of a figure skater pulling her arms in to spin faster. Centralize the mass and the resistance to spin along the axis is reduced.

In aircraft radial engines minimize this effect, while rotary engines, used in some early WWI fighters, maximized this effect.

The P-38 Lightning was a great plane but was not the best pure fighter by a long shot. It saw limited use in Europe where it would have gone up against excellent fighters such as the Me 109 and FW-190 with very well trained and experienced pilots. It was used extensively in the Pacific where it's long range and extra engine safety factor was a big benefit. Pilot's reported the P-38 to be an excellent gun platform and as the name implied, it was very fast. Superior tactics, excellent pilot training and the plane showing up where it was not expected (range) were huge factors in it being very successful in the Pacific.

From Oshkosh last year:

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[MLL67RSSS]

Did some checking and it seems they had counter rotating props.

As for the turning thing, here is what I based my statement on. From pilots who actually flew them in combat.

http://www.bushwings.com/Diary1.html

"A single engine airplane will normally attempt to escape with a left turn. Because of torque and P-factor, it can make a sharper turn to the left than to the right. In a P-38 if we were trying to escape an enemy single engine fighter, we would normally make a turn to the right, with counter rotating props we could turn equally well in both directions, but remember the enemy single engine fighter didn’t turn quite as well to the right as to the left. That is why we would turn right. "

[ripcard]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

...As for the turning thing, here is what I based my statement on. From pilots who actually flew them in combat.

http://www.bushwings.com/Diary1.html

"A single engine airplane will normally attempt to escape with a left turn. Because of torque and P-factor, it can make a sharper turn to the left than to the right. In a P-38 if we were trying to escape an enemy single engine fighter, we would normally make a turn to the right, with counter rotating props we could turn equally well in both directions, but remember the enemy single engine fighter didn’t turn quite as well to the right as to the left. That is why we would turn right. "

Fair enough. The roll rate has a big part in initiating a hard turn. I don't know about "sharper turn" but quicker is just as important, I would guess. Turning to a known enemy's weaker side would be part of the tactics and training I was talking about. Knowledge is power and choosing to turn to the right avoids the possibility that your enemy could turn inside you and get his sights on you.

[Scooter11]

Wow, I just found this thread and boy am I glad I did! Love planes, especially WWII era (my favorite being the Supermarine Spitfire) Fantastic pictures as well...

[Mydivorcegift]

I'm not a plane nerd but I have a question for those that are....

I was thinking about this after the crash a couple of weeks ago. Why is it there are only lap belts in planes? It would seem a harness or at least a shoulder belt would make survival more likely.

[CamaroKid300]

I don't know how many of you here had seen my posts about Auburn's aviation program getting shut down by the university but I'm happy to say that is no longer the case!

Auburn Aviation is here to stay and flourish!

Now....I just need hours to get to 250 so I can get my commercial license....anyone got any hookups

[yzrider58]

Originally Posted by CamaroKid300

I don't know how many of you here had seen my posts about Auburn's aviation program getting shut down by the university but I'm happy to say that is no longer the case!

Auburn Aviation is here to stay and flourish!

Now....I just need hours to get to 250 so I can get my commercial license....anyone got any hookups

I'm sure the pressure applied to the college by Richard Simmons made them cave lol. That's great news though.

[SSBUSDRVR]

Glad to see this thread alive and kicking.

I don't know how many of you here had seen my posts about Auburn's aviation program getting shut down by the university but I'm happy to say that is no longer the case!

Auburn Aviation is here to stay and flourish!

Congrats!
Man really really wish had a way here to get you that time. My first job flying Charter and Mail/Check runs in light Twins use to take along guys/gals in your position and let them fly the Part 91 flights back. Hope you can find someone to tag along with and get that time. Wish you the best and glad someone had enough sense to keep your program at Auburn.

Asiana SFO NTSB Photos
http://www.flickr.com//photos/686184...th/9240582634/

[theragtopguy]

Have any of you ever been to the Rhinebeck Aerodrome in NY state? They have lots of WW 1 biplanes and triplanes.....used to do little shows on Sunday featuring the Red Baron's Fokker Dr.1. Great place, haven't been there in years though.


Phillies Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet!!!!

[Rob@WretchedMS]

haven't been there in forever, i went there as a kid but that was....well a while ago, lol

[theragtopguy]

Here's the link

www.oldrhinebeck.org

Still kicking and doing airshows!!


Phillies Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet!!!!

[yzrider58]

Anybody watching the new reincarnation of the Airplane Repo show? Not a fan of them showing guys sneaking around airports. Almost like a go-by to steal a plane. I would think if they needed to repo one they could just show the FBO their papers and have them pull the plane out and fly away. Maybe it's that easy but doesn't make for good tv.