2014 Chevrolet SS Priced at $44,470

[oklapike]

Originally Posted by Sweet Zness

I actually like the car a lot. The question now becomes what is God's green earth make a loaded up auto camaro the same price basically? Ill take the LS3 and the refinement of the technology and nicer materials for about the same price.

I guess we could also say that at this price you are right up against a base Stingray.

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Why shouldn't they be approximately the same price? There's not a big difference in price between the CTS sedan and CTS coupe. The Camaro would be the nearest thing to a 2-door SS sedan. Both loaded up I would expect the price to be similar.

I just now priced out a Camaro 2SS (RS package, automatic, sunroof, stripes, body-color grille) and it still only came out to $39,925. Honestly, I think the only way we would see MSRPs in line with the Camaro SS (i.e. starting between $37k and $38k), is if SS sedan production (as an Alpha) were ever relocated to North America.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Stew

Actually, last i checked, Chevy provided the ubiquitous fleet and rental car in the Impala.

The SS is not an Impala now is it. The Charger R/T, SRT8 is still a Charger, and the Charger is a rental car. You see the difference?

Originally Posted by Stew

ROFL, I have already answered most of your questions. Please do your research on the Charger R/T. ALL comparisons were against the 08 Cahrger R/T, the 09 got a rougly 20-30 HP jump over the 08 R/Ts that were tested against the G8 GT (fyi, edmunds for example tested a normal R/T without the trackpack and only 340 HP, the Road and Track had 350, for 09 the HP went to 368-372 respectively and dynos show the difference was actually much greater), R/Ts with this engine have gone as quick as low 13s and mid 13s are pretty normal for a RWD model. For 10 they even added the Super track Pack from the Challenger to the Charger R/T Road and Track. Any 11 plus Charger R/T would more than give a G8 GT a run in ANY performance category since the suspension was tweaked to the point it is decribed as BMW like (hmmmm, sound familiar G8 fans?).

Yes, let's look at R/T performance data and then compare it to the GXP which is the most accurate proxy for the SS not the GT.

2011+ Charger's:
R&T: 0-60 in 5.2, 13.7 1/4mile at 104mph, 4410lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.9 1/4mile at 103.6mph, 4319lbs
Edmunds: 0-60 in 5.4, 13.7 1/4mile at 102.8mph, 4315lbs

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, 4348lbs for the R/T. I post the weight to highlight the fact that the 2011+ Charger's also gained over 200lbs with the redesign yet retains its antiquated 5-speed slush-box.

2009 Pontiac G8 GXP:
R&T: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph
C&D: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.3 1/4mile at 109mph
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 4.5, 13.0 1/4mile at 109.6mph

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph for the GXP.

Let me put these numbers side by side so you can see the difference.
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph
R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph

That's an average of 6-tenths faster to 60, 7-tenths and 6mph faster in the quarter than 2011+ Charger R/T. That's not close my friend. At the end of the quarter the GXP is seven car lengths ahead and pulling. If the SS numbers end up being similar to the GXP numbers (which everything to date says they will) then the SS will slot between the R/T and SRT8 in both price and performance as I've stated all along.

Originally Posted by Stew

I also updated your picture for a dash to dash comparison.

The black/red interior you trying to pass off as a SuperBee is a full-fledged SRT8 not the stripped-out, cheesy cloth SuperBee. Nice try though. From Dodge's own website:



This is the ONLY interior option. No navigation, no HID headlamps, no sunroof, no 8" screen, no Uconnect, no heated seats, no leather and bee graphics on the dash, and seats. While it may be SRT8 performance, it's certainly not SS amenities/features.

Originally Posted by Stew

In any case, I am not arguing with you, but when the times and sales come through and i am correct, I will bring this thread back up to remind of our love .

I look forward to it.

[HeavyIOM]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

That's an average of 6-tenths faster to 60, 7-tenths and 6mph faster in the quarter than 2011+ Charger R/T. That's not close my friend. At the end of the quarter the GXP is seven car lengths ahead and pulling. If the SS numbers end up being similar to the GXP numbers (which everything to date says they will) then the SS will slot between the R/T and SRT8 in both price and performance as I've stated all along.

Of corse the GXP is faster then the R/T, just like the SS will be faster as it should. Look at the price difference between what an R/T was and the price of a GXP. with that price tag the GXP should and did blow it away.

I'm sorry but to me the SS being 2K cheaper then an SRT is not priced between it and an R/T. You can get a fairly high optioned R/T for 30-32K which is a good price for what you get. The SRT is priced right for the power and options you get. The SS is right at SRT pricing, with closer to the R/T performance. For the SS to be slotted between them it should fall into the 35-39K price range.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The SS is not an Impala now is it. The Charger R/T, SRT8 is still a Charger, and the Charger is a rental car. You see the difference?



Yes, let's look at R/T performance data and then compare it to the GXP which is the most accurate proxy for the SS not the GT.

2011+ Charger's:
R&T: 0-60 in 5.2, 13.7 1/4mile at 104mph, 4410lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.9 1/4mile at 103.6mph, 4319lbs
Edmunds: 0-60 in 5.4, 13.7 1/4mile at 102.8mph, 4315lbs

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, 4348lbs for the R/T. I post the weight to highlight the fact that the 2011+ Charger's also gained over 200lbs with the redesign yet retains its antiquated 5-speed slush-box.

2009 Pontiac G8 GXP:
R&T: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph
C&D: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.3 1/4mile at 109mph
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 4.5, 13.0 1/4mile at 109.6mph

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph for the GXP.

Let me put these numbers side by side so you can see the difference.
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph
R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph

That's an average of 6-tenths faster to 60, 7-tenths and 6mph faster in the quarter than 2011+ Charger R/T. That's not close my friend. At the end of the quarter the GXP is seven car lengths ahead and pulling. If the SS numbers end up being similar to the GXP numbers (which everything to date says they will) then the SS will slot between the R/T and SRT8 in both price and performance as I've stated all along.



The black/red interior you trying to pass off as a SuperBee is a full-fledged SRT8 not the stripped-out, cheesy cloth SuperBee. Nice try though. From Dodge's own website:



This is the ONLY interior option. No navigation, no HID headlamps, no sunroof, no 8" screen, no Uconnect, no heated seats, no leather and bee graphics on the dash, and seats. While it may be SRT8 performance, it's certainly not SS amenities/features.




I look forward to it.

That photo was from the same article you posted from so..... fyi you can add the 8.4 touchscreen nav, etc back whick was included in the price I posted which would pretty well bring it a matter of leather vs cloth, and that is NOT a cheap base car style cloth either, it is the same as the Viper uses. As for times, mine were from what people actually run, same with the GXPand SRT. Quickest time for an 09 plus R/T is 13.4, 13.2 for a Mopar 10. 12.8 for an 06 to 09 Charger SRT, 12.3 to 12.4 for the 392 SRT, around a 12.9 for the GXP. Never said the R/T was going to be quicker, just that the SS will be closer to R/T performance for basically full SRT money.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Stew

I misrepresented the photo and have no idea what I'm talking about. fyi you can add the 8.4 touchscreen nav, etc back whick was included in the price I posted which would pretty well bring it a matter of leather vs cloth embroidered with tacky bumblebee logo's, and that is NOT a cheap base car style cloth either, it is the same garbage the Viper uses. As for times, mine were numbers I make up but have no reference for. Never said the R/T was going to be quicker, just that the SS will be significantly faster than R/T performance for less than SRT money.

There, fixed it for you.

Now let's take a closer look at Charger SRT8 performance.
C&D: 0-60 in 4.2, 12.6 1/4mile at 115mph, 4305lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 4.4, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph, 4271lbs
Edmunds: 0-60 in 4.6, 12.8 1/4mile at 110mph, 4371lbs
MotorWeek: 0-60 in 4.9, 12.9 1/4mile at 110mph

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph for the 392 SRT8. Very respectable for a car weighing 4,350lbs

So let me put it all together for you.
R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, $36,495 (R/T Max)
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph, $44,000 (proxy for SS)
SRT8: 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph $46,250

The GXP (and one can assume the SS) is much closer to the SRT8 in performance than the R/T and it cost less than a similarly equipped SRT8. You're going to have to realize many people just don't like the look/size/lackluster handling and rental car interior of the SRT8. The 300 is more classy perhaps, but starts at $49,250.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

There, fixed it for you.

Now let's take a closer look at Charger SRT8 performance.
C&D: 0-60 in 4.2, 12.6 1/4mile at 115mph, 4305lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60 in 4.4, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph, 4271lbs
Edmunds: 0-60 in 4.6, 12.8 1/4mile at 110mph, 4371lbs
MotorWeek: 0-60 in 4.9, 12.9 1/4mile at 110mph

This gives us an average of 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph for the 392 SRT8. Very respectable for a car weighing 4,350lbs

So let me put it all together for you.
R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, $36,495 (R/T Max)
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph, $44,000 (proxy for SS)
SRT8: 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph $46,250

The GXP (and one can assume the SS) is much closer to the SRT8 in performance than the R/T and it cost less than a similarly equipped SRT8. You're going to have to realize many people just don't like the look/size/lackluster handling and rental car interior of the SRT8. The 300 is more classy perhaps, but starts at $49,250.

Mag time lol, by that the Camaro as is a 13 second car at best, we all know better. Also, what transmission. Did that GXP have? There are no manual SSs. If I remember correct most, if not all.GXPS tested were manuals......

[Number 3]

All good discussion, but this car will not be sold because it is or is not faster than the Fiat products.

It will be in low volumes and it will sell to those looking for a Chevy that is a bit special.

For those of you that want a cheaper RWD car, that is a crossing point. Most people, and seriously most, at that price point don't care if it's FWD or RWD.

It's a premium car that you can't get caught up in the fact that it's expensive. If it's too much go buy the lower priced lower performing Fiat.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

All good discussion, but this car will not be sold because it is or is not faster than the Fiat products.

It will be in low volumes and it will sell to those looking for a Chevy that is a bit special.

For those of you that want a cheaper RWD car, that is a crossing point. Most people, and seriously most, at that price point don't care if it's FWD or RWD.

It's a premium car that you can't get caught up in the fact that it's expensive. If it's too much go buy the lower priced lower performing Fiat.

Actually, with the times the R/T runs in real life it is closer than many would like in performance. Second, how is a car based on a platform that was sold 5 years before Fiat took over and a refresh that was started years before Fiat was involved, based on a Daimler platform with a Mercedes transmission that is far more, I suppose, exotic then something based on a generic Holden design that holds no cache anywhere and really isn't known at all by most Americans and really has no history, as the Charger does. The Charger is a very high quality product and the attempts to belittle it are just childish. I have nothing against the SS and it is a fine car, but really for all it's improvements it is a lackluster update to the GXP which was a fine car 5 years ago and was then, as the SS is now, a competitor in price and intent wit the Charger SRT 8 which has improved MUCH more and is simply a better performer in each and every way and cannot even downed for it's interior as the old 08 models could.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Stew

Actually, with the times the R/T runs in real life it is closer than many would like in performance. Second, how is a car based on a platform that was sold 5 years before Fiat took over and a refresh that was started years before Fiat was involved, based on a Daimler platform with a Mercedes transmission that is far more, I suppose, exotic then something based on a generic Holden design that holds no cache anywhere and really isn't known at all by most Americans and really has no history, as the Charger does. The Charger is a very high quality product and the attempts to belittle it are just childish. I have nothing against the SS and it is a fine car, but really for all it's improvements it is a lackluster update to the GXP which was a fine car 5 years ago and was then, as the SS is now, a competitor in price and intent wit the Charger SRT 8 which has improved MUCH more and is simply a better performer in each and every way and cannot even downed for it's interior as the old 08 models could.

So you think dodge and Chrysler aren't fiat simply because Daimler owned them previously? And where did I belittle the Giat products warranting the childish comment?

But seriously? Lackluster? Without driving one? It is a major off the Zeta architecture. If you dong like if that's fine by me. But let's wait and see how the reviews come out.

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by Stew

Actually, with the times the R/T runs in real life it is closer than many would like in performance. Second, how is a car based on a platform that was sold 5 years before Fiat took over and a refresh that was started years before Fiat was involved, based on a Daimler platform with a Mercedes transmission that is far more, I suppose, exotic then something based on a generic Holden design that holds no cache anywhere and really isn't known at all by most Americans and really has no history, as the Charger does. The Charger is a very high quality product and the attempts to belittle it are just childish. I have nothing against the SS and it is a fine car, but really for all it's improvements it is a lackluster update to the GXP which was a fine car 5 years ago and was then, as the SS is now, a competitor in price and intent wit the Charger SRT 8 which has improved MUCH more and is simply a better performer in each and every way and cannot even downed for it's interior as the old 08 models could.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Stew

Mag time lol, by that the Camaro as is a 13 second car at best, we all know better.

Sure people have run both faster and slower times than what gets reported in automotive magazines. Not everyone is going to run a hero time in perfect conditions every time. That is why averaging times reported under standardized testing methodologies creates the closest apples-to-apples comparison outside of a same day head-to-head comparisons (which hopefully we will see when the SS is released).

The Camaro SS is on average a 13-sec car.
Motor Trend: SS 13.1 sec @ 110.8 mph
Car and Driver: SS 13.0 sec @ 111 mph
Road & Track: SS 13.0 sec @ 110.7 mph
Inside Line: SS 13.1 sec @ 110.4 mph

Average SS = 13.05 sec @ 110.7mph

Have I seen SS times in the high 12's, yes. And I've also seen SS times in the mid-13's.

Originally Posted by Stew

Also, what transmission. Did that GXP have? There are no manual SSs. If I remember correct most, if not all.GXPS tested were manuals......

MotorTrend and C&D tested the manual, R&T tested the auto. The times were identical. Look how little variation appears in the GXP results. Very consistent times from three different sources on three different days in three different locations with two different transmissions.

Originally Posted by Stew

Actually, with the times the R/T runs in real life it is closer than many would like in performance.

Right, right, the R/T's that Dodge sent MotorTrend, Edmunds, and Road & Track for testing to "show-off" in magazines were somehow handicapped compared to the model Dodge sold customers?? I have seen stock R/T's run in mid-low 13's and I have seen GXP's run high 12's. But when you average their results and look at what the average car will run on a given day, there is a clear difference between R/T and GXP performance, with the GXP being much closer to SRT8 performance than it is to R/T.

Originally Posted by Stew

Second, how is a car based on a platform that was sold 5 years before Fiat took over and a refresh that was started years before Fiat was involved, based on a Daimler platform with a Mercedes transmission that is far more, I suppose, exotic then something based on a generic Holden design that holds no cache anywhere and really isn't known at all by most Americans and really has no history, as the Charger does.

Holy run-on sentence. Where to begin...Yes the LX platform developed for the W211 Mercedes-Benz E-Class was a great platform (exotic is a stretch) when it was developed in the late '90's. The problem is the platform is outdated and weighs 200-300lbs more than the competition. That "generic" Holden design is the Zeta platform, designed as GM's global RWD architecture. Zeta has better driving/handling characteristics and lower weight than the LX.
Go drive a Zeta-based vehicle like the SS 1LE, ZL1, or the upcoming SS sedan and you'll understand why drivers prefer it over the LX equivalents. One needs look no further than Lightning Lap times to see the advantage.

Originally Posted by Stew

The Charger is a very high quality product and the attempts to belittle it are just childish.

Hmmm, compared to your '92 Lumina perhaps. It's a good car for the money.

Originally Posted by Stew

I have nothing against the SS and it is a fine car, but really for all it's improvements it is a lackluster update to the GXP which was a fine car 5 years ago and was then, as the SS is now, a competitor in price and intent wit the Charger SRT 8 which has improved MUCH more and is simply a better performer in each and every way and cannot even downed for it's interior as the old 08 models could.

And I thought lead was dense. The GXP outperformed its SRT8 rival back in 2009 and cost less when similarly equipped. Once again the SS looks to be slightly less than SRT8 performance for less than SRT8 money (2-tenths slower to 60, 3-tenths and 3mph slower in the quarter for $2,250 less).

R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, $36,495 (R/T Max)
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph, $44,000 (proxy for SS)
SRT8: 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph $46,250

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So you think dodge and Chrysler aren't fiat simply because Daimler owned them previously? And where did I belittle the Giat products warranting the childish comment?

But seriously? Lackluster? Without driving one? It is a major off the Zeta architecture. If you dong like if that's fine by me. But let's wait and see how the reviews come out.

There is not a Fiat component in the Charger. No, I am not saying the SS is a lackluster car, just the updates, particularly in the drive train where there are none, was a lackluster attempt at an upgrade. I guess we should just call Ferarris and Maser at is Fiats too? And you know as well as I do your comment was an attempt at a put down.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Stew

There is not a Fiat component in the Charger. No, I am not saying the SS is a lackluster car, just the updates, particularly in the drive train where there are none, was a lackluster attempt at an upgrade. I guess we should just call Ferarris and Maser at is Fiats too? And you know as well as I do your comment was an attempt at a put down.

Every component on the Charger is Fiat. Every last nut and bolt. They own the company.

Ferrari is slightly different as it is financially separated from Fiat. When GM owned 20% of Fiat Ferrari was not included.

Calling a Dodge a Fiat is the same as calling a Chevy a GM car.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Sure people have run both faster and slower times than what gets reported in automotive magazines. Not everyone is going to run a hero time in perfect conditions every time. That is why averaging times reported under standardized testing methodologies creates the closest apples-to-apples comparison outside of a same day head-to-head comparisons (which hopefully we will see when the SS is released).

The Camaro SS is on average a 13-sec car.
Motor Trend: SS 13.1 sec @ 110.8 mph
Car and Driver: SS 13.0 sec @ 111 mph
Road & Track: SS 13.0 sec @ 110.7 mph
Inside Line: SS 13.1 sec @ 110.4 mph

Average SS = 13.05 sec @ 110.7mph

Have I seen SS times in the high 12's, yes. And I've also seen SS times in the mid-13's.



MotorTrend and C&D tested the manual, R&T tested the auto. The times were identical. Look how little variation appears in the GXP results. Very consistent times from three different sources on three different days in three different locations with two different transmissions.



Right, right, the R/T's that Dodge sent MotorTrend, Edmunds, and Road & Track for testing to "show-off" in magazines were somehow handicapped compared to the model Dodge sold customers?? I have seen stock R/T's run in mid-low 13's and I have seen GXP's run high 12's. But when you average their results and look at what the average car will run on a given day, there is a clear difference between R/T and GXP performance, with the GXP being much closer to SRT8 performance than it is to R/T.



Holy run-on sentence. Where to begin...Yes the LX platform developed for the W211 Mercedes-Benz E-Class was a great platform (exotic is a stretch) when it was developed in the late '90's. The problem is the platform is outdated and weighs 200-300lbs more than the competition. That "generic" Holden design is the Zeta platform, designed as GM's global RWD architecture. Zeta has better driving/handling characteristics and lower weight than the LX.
Go drive a Zeta-based vehicle like the SS 1LE, ZL1, or the upcoming SS sedan and you'll understand why drivers prefer it over the LX equivalents. One needs look no further than Lightning Lap times to see the advantage.



Hmmm, compared to your '92 Lumina perhaps. It's a good car for the money.



And I thought lead was dense. The GXP outperformed its SRT8 rival back in 2009 and cost less when similarly equipped. Once again the SS looks to be slightly less than SRT8 performance for less than SRT8 money (2-tenths slower to 60, 3-tenths and 3mph slower in the quarter for $2,250 less).

R/T: 0-60 in 5.3, 13.8 1/4mile at 103mph, $36,495 (R/T Max)
GXP: 0-60 in 4.7, 13.1 1/4mile at 109mph, $44,000 (proxy for SS)
SRT8: 0-60 in 4.5, 12.8 1/4mile at 112mph $46,250

You hold on to those mag times sir, we will see how this plays out on the tracks across the US when it hits the stretets. The average owner seems to have NO problem getting mid 12s from the 392 SRT cars. The only logical thing I can imagine is that they had green cars with few miles and it generally takes between 3000 and 5000 miles before the Hemis are at their full power. Same thing with the 5.7 Hemis, once they are broken in mid 13s seem to be no issue, don't believe, do your research. There is one * with the Charger R/Ts. They offer 2 different ratios, most tests seem to be with the dstandard 2.65 ratio, the reason i keep comparing the Road and track and Daytone cars is because they all have the Challenger R/Ts 3/06 ratio which i am sure makes a difference.

Another interesting tidbit. the ONLY test i know of where a Charger SRT8 was put against the GXP on the same day and same tract was done by road and track. The times were close enough to be a wask

The GXP did 0-60 in 4.7, the SRT8 4.9, That gap had actually closed to .1 second in the 1/4 mile, 13.1 for the GXP and 13.2 for the SRT8. Top speeds where 165 for the Charger, 155 for the GXP (limiter). Both cars provided .88g on the skidpad while the SRT8 provided the higher slalom speed at 65.8 vs 65 for the GXP. Those numbers, same day/same conditions are more revelant than any posted by either one of us yet. Now take into effect the SRT8 has seen HUGE upgrades in not only the powerplant, but the suspension as well. If you think the SS is going to handle like a ZL1 or 1LE you are more than likely going to get an unpleasant surprise. it is still a sedan and must still maintain more ride compliance than the stiff 1LE and it will not be getting the ZL1s trick magnetic dampers. it wso won't compare with them in braking considering it's front end only Brembos compared to the 1LE, ZL1 (oh and SS and SRT8s) 4 wheel brembos.

As for my Lumina, worst designed car I have ever owned, but it does what I need and was a neccesary evil for a better future. Really, I think they were drunk when they designed this thing, horrible exterior, horrible interior, a glove box barely suited to hold an envelope, a 3 speed automatic in a midsize sedan in the early 90s???? A car where half the accesories in the engine compartment have to be removed just to change a battery???? Easily the thinking that got GM in the trouble they were in and unfortunatly a prelude of what happened to Chrysler during the Daimler years.