CAFE 75 mpg in 2030

[swazworth]

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

75 is impossible... and stupid... usa makes so much tax money on gas... there killing themselves and cafe is a bunch of 90 year olds going to die

they will just find a new way to tax us.

a couple of years ago there was a test going on in oregon that taxed people on the miles they drove. it was a test because of all the $$$$ they were losing because of the newer cars getting better milage. (hybrids and stuff like that)

better milage= lose gas tax money= find new ways to get the lost $$$

[Mindz]

This is about 2 weeks late. April Fools is on the 1st.

[stovt001]

I saw this and my reaction is still the same: Good God. In the past 20 years, we've what? Doubled fuel economy at best? This would make us nearly triple fuel economy from what we average now. Do they just pull these numbers out of their butt? Really, they just pick whatever round number they think will make the uninformed consumers happy. Ridiculous.

[TAG UR IT]

Won't ever happen.

Remember those trains we were talking about, Scott? We'll just redirect them for ya! :seesaw:

[Emher]

I honestly laughed when I read this headline. I mean come on, 75 mpg? That can't be serious.

[MattG]

75 is just the starting point for negotiations. It'll never happen.

[TFord]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I am generally in favour of enviro stuff. I like the concept of a hybrid Camaro. I want to see cellulose ethanol. I want a hydrogen economy to happen at some point. However, I must issue a Rant Warning


This law makes perfect sense. The automakers say it will be hard to meet a 25% increase in 12 years. SOO, after they meet that requirement make them do a 115% increase in 10 years right after that. Doing something impossible should be easy after doing something hard. Kinda like how it would be easy to swim accross the atlantic ocean right after you swam down the entire Mississippi. Wonder these people have taken into account the fact that car sales will drop dramatically and people will just keep driving their older cars. Fixing and fueling them would be cheaper than getting a brand new ultra efficient car.

Today, even the most fuel efficient cars on the market here cannot match that 75 mpg average. So if the best can't do it, it is not possible for average vehicles to do it. Let alone the worst. For example, you can't make a family hauler get 50 mpg. With enough technical innovation it may eventually be possible for it to reach 40 highway. The only way that things could be legit in that article is if there is some way to incorporate hydrogen and electric cars into the mix. Even ethanol wouldn't be enough.

I think that this entire article is BS. Some politicians are stupid, but not enough are that stupid. Cars and trucks account for something like 10-20% of CO2 emissions. Why pick on the little guy? Its much easier to elimanate 100% of the CO2 produced by power plants than to reduce CO2 from internal combustion engines by 50%. AND it would be more effective. But no, someone decided that picking on Detroit and helping Japanesse automakers was good. Give Toyota and Honda tax breaks to build factories here. Allow 1 way trading. Let GM and Ford shut down their factories. Don't force the Japanesse to import our cars. Impose fuel economy laws which favour import auto makers. Its all a big crock and its been building for 20 years. This is just the latest incarnation.

rant is over now.

A-friggin-MEN to that. these people are crazy...your so friggin right about that, we're basically stabbing ourselves in the back. Seriously look at detroit, the unemployment rate is unsat! our middle class is being crushed, and now were trying to shoot ourselves in the foot with this cafe stupidity. then when you think that automobiles are responsible for at the most 20% of co2 emissions, why is all the attention being put on the carmakers? If they want such drastic increases in fuel economy then they should be at a minimum partly responsibile for developing the technology for these retarded demands.
DGthe3, dont even get me started on the trading with Japan!

lets just say you will NEVER see a japanese car outside my house...NEVER, and if I had it my way NONE of my money would benefit japan's economy. Thats how it is in Japan, and thats why Japan's economy does well.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TFord

then when you think that automobiles are responsible for at the most 20% of co2 emissions, why is all the attention being put on the carmakers?

Because it's great PR on the Politician's part. People see cars every day! People don't think of power plants when they think of the green movement.

If a Politician takes care of the cars - then they'll be remembered!!

[TFord]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Because it's great PR on the Politician's part. People see cars every day! People don't think of power plants when they think of the green movement.

If a Politician takes care of the cars - then they'll be remembered!!

You are so right. I wish there was something that could be done, or a way that people could see that the finger cant even pe pointed at the auto industry. Maybe the big three should come together and put out "truth" or "fact" comercials like they do with cigarettes. so that the people will know the truth and it will be easier to STONE these politians....wheres fbodfather at?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TFord

You are so right. I wish there was something that could be done, or a way that people could see that the finger cant even pe pointed at the auto industry. Maybe the big three should come together and put out "truth" or "fact" comercials like they do with cigarettes. so that the people will know the truth and it will be easier to STONE these politions....wheres fbodfather at?

But do the Cigarette companies put out those commercials? No.
If the Big 3 came out and did something like that it would be eqivilant to saying "It's not us! Don't hurt us!"...and people would immediately dismiss that as propaganda, and falsehoods.

An outside party...say the EPA, or...one of the 'green' groups would need to put forth a movement like that. Only then would it hold any weight with the general Public.

Though, if this 75mpg thing gets put in place (doubtful), I think even the foreign car companys would be on board with that idea, TFord. And, you know, because they're so great - I can see that having an impact.

This whole situation sucks.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

An outside party...say the EPA, or...one of the 'green' groups would need to put forth a movement like that. Only then would it hold any weight with the general Public.

Problem is, its the EPA that suggested this 75 mpg limit . . .

[fbodfather]

Hmnmmmm.............so who is the 'scientist' or 'engineer' that came up with 75mpg?


Here's the problem -- who's going to pay for it? The costs -- ASSUMING it's doable - would be STAGGERING.

Here's another problem -- will we be able to provide you with transportation that meets your NEEDS??

We've agreed that we'll do anything we can to hit the 35mpg law - the problem is that the rules haven't been written -- and won't be for some time...so what do we, as product planners do in the meantime?

I know this -- the Politician that says stuff like this will be embraced by the 'green' group -- -of course, the Politician doesn't have to worry about HOW we get there.

On top of this CAFE standard, you have individual states that want to set their own emissions standards -- which is just staggeringly expensive.

I truly believe our society -- as a whole -- has lost its collective mind.

(time for me to retire!!!)

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

(time for me to retire!!!)

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[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Hmnmmmm.............so who is the 'scientist' or 'engineer' that came up with 75mpg?


Here's the problem -- who's going to pay for it? The costs -- ASSUMING it's doable - would be STAGGERING.

Here's another problem -- will we be able to provide you with transportation that meets your NEEDS??

We've agreed that we'll do anything we can to hit the 35mpg law - the problem is that the rules haven't been written -- and won't be for some time...so what do we, as product planners do in the meantime?

I know this -- the Politician that says stuff like this will be embraced by the 'green' group -- -of course, the Politician doesn't have to worry about HOW we get there.

On top of this CAFE standard, you have individual states that want to set their own emissions standards -- which is just staggeringly expensive.

I truly believe our society -- as a whole -- has lost its collective mind.

(time for me to retire!!!)