Attn: Fbodfather- Will GM save the Pontiac G8 for the U.S. market via rebadge?

[stovt001]

Volume is meaningless without profit. The current Impala cannot be sold for a profit. Period. End of story. GM should learn from the new Malibu, and doubtless the Camaro: a good, high quality product that people desire will significantly raise average transaction prices, which increases profits.

[manimsoblack]

Buick Riviera? No

Hell just make it it's own vehicle. The Buick G Sedan. The Chevy G. Might have a licensing issue with Infiniti... But make a big production about how it's based on the G8 one of the best cars GM ever made. Buick only has 3 current US cars and witih the Insignia replacing either the Lacrosse or Lucerne they could stand for one more vehicle. Though i really think it would sell better as a Chevy... the Impala is due for a redesign anyway.

[djsnoflake]

Impala needs a refresh. Not that it is super stale, I will leave that title to the Crown Vic that (finally) got put out of its misery after 30 years on basically the same platform.

[stovt001]

Well on today's web chat with Ed Peper he was asked if any Pontiacs, including the G8, would be rebadged. He gave a curt "No" and that was that. So there you have it. GM keeps giving the wrong answer time and again to this question, and they won't even give a satisfying answer - just one word: no. Feels great doesn't it?

[stovt001]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=150728

To summarize: The G8 will not live on because Obama crony Henderson "doesn't like badge engineering". He is, however, perfectly happy to slap a new badge on an Equinox, call it Terrain, split marketing dollars in half so neither is properly marketed, and have the two cannibalize sales from each other while everyone else looks on and laughs. That's perfectly OK, but moving a fantastic, critically praised product from a dead brand to a surviving brand where it will have no internal competition and minimal external competition is not good badge engineering? With a thought process like that, GM has pretty much put themselves off my radar, except for the Camaro. It isn't just this one decision. It is a pattern of killing great cars and rebadging flops to spread the mediocrity.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by stovt001

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=150728

To summarize: The G8 will not live on because Obama crony Henderson "doesn't like badge engineering". He is, however, perfectly happy to slap a new badge on an Equinox, call it Terrain, split marketing dollars in half so neither is properly marketed, and have the two cannibalize sales from each other while everyone else looks on and laughs. That's perfectly OK, but moving a fantastic, critically praised product from a dead brand to a surviving brand where it will have no internal competition and minimal external competition is not good badge engineering? With a thought process like that, GM has pretty much put themselves off my radar, except for the Camaro. It isn't just this one decision. It is a pattern of killing great cars and rebadging flops to spread the mediocrity.

As great as the G8 is, it isnt selling how they would like. Im going to go out on a limb as suggest this plays a big role. The G8 (esp. the GT/GXP) is a GREAT car, but id say the exterior scares alot of people away. The odd hood scoops and ricey looking tail lights arent representative of a 30-40k car.

[stovt001]

And the simple fix to that? I nice clean Chevy or Buick nose sans hoodscoops, and Chevy marketing dollars to match. That will get you sales. Oh, and a good V6, like I dunno, the one that has received endless praise in the Camaro and CTS. Yes, that would help a lot too.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by stovt001

And the simple fix to that? I nice clean Chevy or Buick nose sans hoodscoops, and Chevy marketing dollars to match. That will get you sales. Oh, and a good V6, like I dunno, the one that has received endless praise in the Camaro and CTS. Yes, that would help a lot too.

That would help, but its a bigger problem. A Design problem.

[stovt001]

I actually think design, except for the nose and hood scoops, is one of its biggest draws. Every review I've read on the car praises its subtle good looks (again, except for the nose and hoodscoops) and compares them to pre-Bangle BMW. Clean up the front, and the design is one of its biggest selling points, as with most modern GM cars.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I almost wonder if they wanted to shut down pontiac altogether (thus explaining the G8's cancellation)....but couldn't due to some agreement with Toyota and the Vibe......................

As for the topic at hand...I reluctantly agree with the decision they made. I look at assumed 'facts':

--Chevy can't fit anymore products, nor can Cadillac(they need replacements...), and the G8 doesn't fit well anywhere else (GMC/Buick).
--It was a 'free' car from Holden.

The only logical way to keep it around and still kill off Pontiac would be to rebadge it as the Impala. Unfortunately, the cars aren't even remotely similar, and the G8's sales are a tiny fraction of the Impala's. Nobody denies it's a fantastic car....but what can be done?

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I almost wonder if they wanted to shut down pontiac altogether (thus explaining the G8's cancellation)....but couldn't due to some agreement with Toyota and the Vibe......................

As for the topic at hand...I reluctantly agree with the decision they made. I look at assumed 'facts':

--Chevy can't fit anymore products, nor can Cadillac(they need replacements...), and the G8 doesn't fit well anywhere else (GMC/Buick).
--It was a 'free' car from Holden.

The only logical way to keep it around and still kill off Pontiac would be to rebadge it as the Impala. Unfortunately, the cars aren't even remotely similar, and the G8's sales are a tiny fraction of the Impala's. Nobody denies it's a fantastic car....but what can be done?

Why does it "have" to be an "Impala"?

Why not ressurect another nameplate or give it a new one?

[stovt001]

No it really would have to be Impala if it was Chevy. Dragon is right when he says Chevy has enough models. I just see no reason why it couldn't be Impala. It is a large full size sedan with a healthy bit of luxury and comfort. The Impala has been RWD V6/V8 powered in the past. And sales numbers for the current Impala are almost entirely little-to-no profit fleet sales, whereas most G8 sales are full retail. And sales also have to do with Chevy being a fair more mainstream and well marketed brand. There is no reason why G8-turned-Impala retail sales couldn't beat current Impala retail sales.

And there is also no reason why it couldn't be a Buick. It is fairly upscale, and could be made even more so. While Buick is primarily sedate, there is no reason why its flagship couldn't be RWD and offer a V8. So long as Caddy makes the proper decisions replacing the STS and DTS (but this is GM so I won't hold my breath on the right decision being made) then it really shouldn't step on Caddy's toes. The G8 is nice and could be made nicer, but Caddys are nicer still.

The real problem here is the entire automotive community is crying out demanding the G8 be rebadged, and GM is just putting their fingers in their ears and ignoring it. They won't even give a real answer or explanation. Every time someone asks, they won't say anything beyond "No". I think a car with so much support behind it deserves a better answer than that. Even if it is still negative, it should be something more substantial than "No". How arrogant and rude.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

The real problem here is the entire automotive community is crying out demanding the G8 be rebadged, and GM is just putting their fingers in their ears and ignoring it. They won't even give a real answer or explanation. Every time someone asks, they won't say anything beyond "No". I think a car with so much support behind it deserves a better answer than that. Even if it is still negative, it should be something more substantial than "No". How arrogant and rude.

heh...."No." is farrrrr more than you'd get from the likes of Toyota...or even the GM of ten years ago. A typical response might sound more like crickets, or the over-used "We are not able to comment at this time."

You never know, stovt....there might be something coming down the pipe that necessitates this. I have no idea what that could be...but GM's trend, of late, has not been to randomly cancel good vehicles. So, either this car's business case is not nearly as "good" as we all think...or there's something else moving from within.

[The_Blur]

I haven't posted a take on it here, so I thought I would interject some conclusions about the G8 and Pontiac as a whole because the two are so closely related.

Pontiac was never given a shot as a niche brand. Every single time that it sought to act in a specific performance market, it faced brand-damaging products. It is hard to assess why this happened or whether someone is to blame, but no one managed to successfully enforce a performance brand identity for Pontiac in recent history. Instead, toxic, brand-damaging products took that performance image and damaged it. These products include the G3 and Aztek that no one liked.

The G8 could have made a great Impala, but GM decided to make the Impala FWD. Adding a RWD Impala back into the lineup make Chevrolet less the brand that it is designed to be. What is Chevrolet? It is everyone's car. As a result, it is both a performance brand and a family brand. We all have to remember that the greatest of muscle cars were born of incredibly average family cars. This created the original sleepers. The G8 is too performance-oriented to be a family car.

The G8 sells poorly. It has to go. I wish it could go elsewhere. The most logical choice is apparently Buick, a niche luxury brand. It hasn't had a real performer in a long time. Apparently, Buick is not slated for a G8-like product, and GM simply has no good excuse to bring the G8 over to Buick right now. Think about it. GM is in bankruptcy court. The government has a large amount of control over GM right now. GM also possesses other performance products, so there is no good reason to port this over. The current stakeholders simply don't see it as a good idea. I would have to agree, at least on a temporary basis. Keep selling big sellers. The G8 simply has to go for now.

The G8 market is the same as other GM car markets. Look at us. We're on a Camaro site. We're talking about ways we can wiggle a car that we all love into full lineups. If we are so desperate to keep it while so many buyers are prepared to ignore it, then we are a poor representation of the market. As enthusiasts, we like performance cars, and we have a bias. Unfortunately, that makes our opinion marginal.

The G8 is amazing. It is a testament to GM engineering. Killing the G8 is not the end of this sort of engineering. It is a sign that GM has other products that represent the best of GM performance. If the G8 is an expendable performance car, then the remaining performers must be pretty amazing. I'm very optimistic about GM's future, and I have every reason to believe that great cars, like the G8, will continue to exist in GM's future.