Yay! GM to introduce 2 new pickups while ford makes only one.

[KMPrenger]

Interesting story, and sounds a bit like a gamble for Ford, but if they can pull it off without costs increasing TOO much and lose 500 lbs or so then thats a win for them.

Last I read, is that GM is removing 300 to 400 lbs from its trucks for this next generation also, so that can only be a good thing...although more weight lost is better as long as the strength and durability is still there.

I am a bit confused on the mention of the smaller truck coming two years after the new full size (Silverado). As others here have said, that smaller truck must be the Colorado. We've been seeing and hearing about this truck for at least a year or two now, and so why the heck would Chevy wait another three or so years from today to release this truck? Hell, by then it will be old news and we will already be tired of it and it won't even be released yet.

In all honesty, I hope they tweak the look of the colorado a bit, as I think it already looks like a prior gen Malibu (the front end) and as much I think this could potentially be a good smaller truck, I don't want to drive around a truck that looks like a damn Malibu. Also, if they are going to push the Colorado back that much further, that had better mean they have more planned for it in terms of innovative ideas and powertrains that can provide a notable MPG increase over its bigger brother. I'm agree with another poster on this forum...a long with my Camaro I want a truck. Currently driving around an 01 Ranger, but not gonna get the job done when I want 4 doors and a truck bed. I use the bed quite a bit, but have no need for a full size truck either, so I'm looking at something like the current Colorado right now as my next ride. Sure the gas mileage isn't super great, but I don't need 4WD, and should be able to average 19 or so with the inline 5 engine. The next Colorado needs to be able to average higher than that for sure.

[FenwickHockey65]

Because GM doesn't want to upstage the launch of the Silverado/Sierra with the Colorado/(possible) Canyon. Waiting until the 2014MY will give the K2XXs time to build sales.

[Captain Awesome]

I've been reading up on aluminum body panels and another "feature" of them is that they are much harder to repair if they get dented. So get ready for your insurance rates to go higher to cover the more expensive repairs these lightweight parts will bring. A lot of shops currently won't even repair them and simply replace them. A $250 softball dent in a hood is an automatic $1000 replacement repair.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I've been reading up on aluminum body panels and another "feature" of them is that they are much harder to repair if they get dented. So get ready for your insurance rates to go higher to cover the more expensive repairs these lightweight parts will bring. A lot of shops currently won't even repair them and simply replace them. A $250 softball dent in a hood is an automatic $1000 replacement repair.

Aluminum is also easier and more economical to recycle than steel. It takes less energy to melt aluminum down and make it into something new, the process to recycle steel is much more complicated and expensive.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I've been reading up on aluminum body panels and another "feature" of them is that they are much harder to repair if they get dented. So get ready for your insurance rates to go higher to cover the more expensive repairs these lightweight parts will bring. A lot of shops currently won't even repair them and simply replace them. A $250 softball dent in a hood is an automatic $1000 replacement repair.

What are the Camaro's fenders made of if I may ask because I'm pretty sure if they were aluminum they wouldn't cost $1000 to replace and reprint. Of course less material factor but the current fenders only cost 249 for the driver side and 198 for the passenger side (if I recall both prices correctly. I would only expect a 100 increase in cost to sell them but I could be wrong.

[Rhyder]

I owned a Ford F150 Ecoboost before this camaro, and I have to say it got great MPG, also serving up a heck of a kick if you punched it with the dual turbo's....I have to say that having owned several kinds of trucks, hands down the F150 has been the best...thats not a vendor loyalty statement, thats the fact as I see them....other than a few cosmetic woohaa's and widjets, the F150 outperformed and outclassed every other truck Ive owned.

As to the statement that Chevy is close in sales,As of 2 years ago there were more F150's on the road than all others in its class combined.....and the sales number show it, F150 accounts for almost 23% of all sales by ford.....no other dealer even comes close...The F150 has been outselling every other brand for over 20 years consecutivly....You dont have that many and that long a history and not sell a really good product.

I love my Camaro, but I have to say, if someone makes a better product, you would be crazy to not go to it just because "your" manufacturer doesnt make it. You cant at this time beat the F150 for performance.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

What are the Camaro's fenders made of if I may ask because I'm pretty sure if they were aluminum they wouldn't cost $1000 to replace and reprint. Of course less material factor but the current fenders only cost 249 for the driver side and 198 for the passenger side (if I recall both prices correctly. I would only expect a 100 increase in cost to sell them but I could be wrong.

The hood is aluminum the front fenders are steel. At GM Partshouse a hood is $669.50 a steel hood for a Silverado is $395.34. So could the difference in price attributed to material of construction?

[Bob Cosby]

Here are you truck numbers, YTD, for CY 2012:

Ford F-Series: 350,455 (+11.9%)
Chevy Silverado: 223,480 (+3.5%)
GMC Seirra: 84,050 (+4.5%)
Total GM: 307,530

Sources:

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/July12sales.pdf
https://www.media.gm.com/dld/content..._July_2012.pdf

As for the Ecoboost, it gets slightly better mileage than the 5.0, but kills it in low-mid rpm power (which is where a truck needs it). It also gets better mileage than a 5.3L Silverado, but makes more HP and far, far more low-mid range torque. GM's 6.2 makes more HP than the Ecoboost, and the same torque (though at a much higher rpm), but its MPG is much worse.

[shaffe]

My family has had both trucks, silverado and f series and my honest opinion is the ford trucks are just better than the gm. My dad grew up a die hard gm guy, and we had three or four silverados ranging from 1500s to 3500s. Then one day dad went and test drove a ford in 2004 and it was just all around a better truck.

Looks wise tho, I think the Sierra is the best looking truck on the road.

From what I have heard on ecoboost mpg s when just driving around town or on the highway, it's much better than the v8 but the gas mileage suffers when towing.

[mickss]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I've been reading up on aluminum body panels and another "feature" of them is that they are much harder to repair if they get dented. So get ready for your insurance rates to go higher to cover the more expensive repairs these lightweight parts will bring. A lot of shops currently won't even repair them and simply replace them. A $250 softball dent in a hood is an automatic $1000 replacement repair.

http://www.aluminum.org/AM/Template....ontentID=21182

As Quoted;
Costs
There are few fundamental differences between the repair of steel and aluminum panels, and the typical repair shop can be outfitted relatively easily for both. The difference between the material costs of steel and aluminum are insignificant in comparison to the cost of replacement parts. For an experienced technician, the labor time required for aluminum repair is equivalent to that required for steel. To gain appropriate experience, the first step is training. Such training is rapidly spreading, and those who complete instruction are more valued assets to their employers.

As the aluminum content of vehicles increases, more and more repair facilities will learn to better accommodate aluminum-intensive vehicles. As more aluminum-intensive vehicles come onto the market, repair shops will react—as they always have—to economic pressures and equip themselves to handle damage repairs, much like they did several years ago to adjust to the universal changeover to computer engine controls.

Conclusion
Comparing the relative ease and costs of repairing aluminum and steel, it is clear aluminum is not more difficult—just different. Different techniques are required, as is a clear understanding of the differences between steel and aluminum alloys and how they affect the repair process. Such understanding is readily available, as are the necessary specialized tools for proper repair of aluminum. As for training, I-CAR programs have been in existence for several years, and manufacturers and suppliers are providing the necessary instructional materials to assimilate repair of aluminum into everyday shop practices.

As automotive aluminum use continues to climb due to its performance, safety, and environmental advantages, its repair will become as commonplace and routine as that of traditional materials.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by mickss

http://www.aluminum.org/AM/Template....ontentID=21182

As Quoted;
Conclusion
Comparing the relative ease and costs of repairing aluminum and steel, it is clear aluminum is not more difficult—just different. Different techniques are required, as is a clear understanding of the differences between steel and aluminum alloys and how they affect the repair process. Such understanding is readily available, as are the necessary specialized tools for proper repair of aluminum. As for training, I-CAR programs have been in existence for several years, and manufacturers and suppliers are providing the necessary instructional materials to assimilate repair of aluminum into everyday shop practices.

As automotive aluminum use continues to climb due to its performance, safety, and environmental advantages, its repair will become as commonplace and routine as that of traditional materials.

Your article assumes that all of the training, materials, and equipment needed for aluminum panel repair are just strewn around on the ground everywhere for anyone to pick up and use for free. This is patently false.

Someone has to pay for all of this new "stuff" and it's not going to be the business. Expect the prices for repairs to go up to pay for all of this dubious technology.

Also take these articles with a grain of salt. You don't necessarily know what agenda the writer may be pushing. You are quoting an article on the aluminum industry website. Ya think there's no chance of a bias there?

I recall reading a lot of enviros proudly proclaiming that water based car paints were just as good as petroleum based paints. Anyone with a new Camaro can attest to the lack of durability and the imperfections present in the wonderful new watercolor technology foisted upon consumers. The Camaro paint process is supposed to be the best #1 state of the art too! It's simply not as good as what we had before.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Aluminum is also easier and more economical to recycle than steel. It takes less energy to melt aluminum down and make it into something new, the process to recycle steel is much more complicated and expensive.

Yes but the process to mine and refine Aluminum is much more costly and energy consuming than making steel, so your up front costs are a lot higher. The cost in dollars and energy to create new steel is comparable tothe recycling costs alone for aluminum, so the benefit is lost.

[mickss]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Your article assumes that all of the training, materials, and equipment needed for aluminum panel repair are just strewn around on the ground everywhere for anyone to pick up and use for free. This is patently false.

Someone has to pay for all of this new "stuff" and it's not going to be the business. Expect the prices for repairs to go up to pay for all of this dubious technology.

Also take these articles with a grain of salt. You don't necessarily know what agenda the writer may be pushing. You are quoting an article on the aluminum industry website. Ya think there's no chance of a bias there?

I recall reading a lot of enviros proudly proclaiming that water based car paints were just as good as petroleum based paints. Anyone with a new Camaro can attest to the lack of durability and the imperfections present in the wonderful new watercolor technology foisted upon consumers. The Camaro paint process is supposed to be the best #1 state of the art too! It's simply not as good as what we had before.

I suspect that your conclusions are based more on political opinion regarding Insurance and Repair ("Aluminum is not only more expensive than steel, but harder for car manufacturers to mold into auto body parts, and difficult to repair which may lead to higher insurance premiums." http://www.demint.senate.gov/public/...e3-e1bb536b817) then they are based on real world realities.

Aluminum is a cost efficient recyclable material requiring less energy(heat) and has infinite recyclable capabilities over steel

As for the claim of being harder to mold body parts, again a mistaken interpretation, GM uses hydroforming with the Corvette and other models, Hydroforming is a cost-effective way of shaping ductile metals such as aluminum.

If I have falsely accused you of making a political point with regards to the benefits of Aluminum over Steel, then I apologize for making that assertion.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

Here are you truck numbers, YTD, for CY 2012:

Ford F-Series: 350,455 (+11.9%)
Chevy Silverado: 223,480 (+3.5%)
GMC Seirra: 84,050 (+4.5%)
Total GM: 307,530

Sources:

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/July12sales.pdf
https://www.media.gm.com/dld/content..._July_2012.pdf

As for the Ecoboost, it gets slightly better mileage than the 5.0, but kills it in low-mid rpm power (which is where a truck needs it). It also gets better mileage than a 5.3L Silverado, but makes more HP and far, far more low-mid range torque. GM's 6.2 makes more HP than the Ecoboost, and the same torque (though at a much higher rpm), but its MPG is much worse.

strange. around here the ecoboosts are not good. the 5.0's are doing better on fuel. even the local dealer isn't recommending them.

and my 6.2 gm is better on fuel than my 5.3 was.