2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Automobile Magazine now has track times from Gingerman...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231690

Hell ya for team camaro. They nailed the on track performance. It sounds like the car has a telepathic ability to translate inputs onto the track flawlessly. The mr and irs do wonders, now if Chevy would tear 500lbs outta the car, it'd be a Ferrari beater easy. Throw an extra 100hp in and it would easily run 7:30's at the ring.

Ford needs to get an IRS under the rear and adjust the suspension from the sounds of this review. A little weight reduction would help also, 250#'s taken out plus a new chassis with irs should help a ton; quantum leap in finesse and control. 700hp could be in the cards as well.

Funny thing is this is the only review I've seen where they claim high body roll and poor handling for the gt500. Motortend did all kinds of tests and didn't report much of anything bad. Maybe it's late braking the car from 135 that gets it outta wack. I'm sure they did but it makes you wonder if they switched the toggles to track settings, they did on the camaro so I'm pretty sure they had to have on the gt500.

I think the gt500 requires a real pro to get the max out of it, the zl1 will pretty much always be faster with average to good drivers. Those times are a bit high for what I was expecting from both cars for that track; they aren't bad drivers but it shows in the review that they aren't 10/10 if they miss shifts every lap in a car with a built in wotbox. Even I don't do that on an archaic 03 cobra t56 which is much more of a beast to shift than a zl1. If they can't nail a shift, I ponder how well they are toe/heeling the cars. That alone corrects for under steer and makes a difference.

I was expecting 1:43 for the zl1 and 1:43.5 for the gt500 but I don't know the track conditions for that day; it rained a ton on Sunday and I think they tested over the weekend or yesterday but have no clue really.

I wanna see randy phobst or another pro run a similar test. It doesn't really apply but tires can gain .7 seconds pretty easy when the factory set wear out, why not go bigger/better? If that doesn't clean up the handling, a set of springs is a couple hundred bucks.

Good comparison none the less, more please!

[truth411]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Hell ya for team camaro. They nailed the on track performance. It sounds like the car has a telepathic ability to translate inputs onto the track flawlessly. The mr and irs do wonders, now if Chevy would tear 500lbs outta the car, it'd be a Ferrari beater easy. Throw an extra 100hp in and it would easily run 7:30's at the ring.

Ford needs to get an IRS under the rear and adjust the suspension from the sounds of this review. A little weight reduction would help also, 250#'s taken out plus a new chassis with irs should help a ton; quantum leap in finesse and control. 700hp could be in the cards as well.

Funny thing is this is the only review I've seen where they claim high body roll and poor handling for the gt500. Motortend did all kinds of tests and didn't report much of anything bad. Maybe it's late braking the car from 135 that gets it outta wack. I'm sure they did but it makes you wonder if they switched the toggles to track settings, they did on the camaro so I'm pretty sure they had to have on the gt500.

I think the gt500 requires a real pro to get the max out of it, the zl1 will pretty much always be faster with average to good drivers. Those times are a bit high for what I was expecting from both cars for that track; they aren't bad drivers but it shows in the review that they aren't 10/10 if they miss shifts every lap in a car with a built in wotbox. Even I don't do that on an archaic 03 cobra t56 which is much more of a beast to shift than a zl1. If they can't nail a shift, I ponder how well they are toe/heeling the cars. That alone corrects for under steer and makes a difference.

I was expecting 1:43 for the zl1 and 1:43.5 for the gt500 but I don't know the track conditions for that day; it rained a ton on Sunday and I think they tested over the weekend or yesterday but have no clue really.

I wanna see randy phobst or another pro run a similar test. It doesn't really apply but tires can gain .7 seconds pretty easy when the factory set wear out, why not go bigger/better? If that doesn't clean up the handling, a set of springs is a couple hundred bucks.

Good comparison none the less, more please!

They already have a ferrari beater called the corvette.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by truth411

They already have a ferrari beater called the corvette.

Ya but that's not in question. If they had two or three it'd be awesome.

[cbass]

Funny thing is this is the only review I've seen where they claim high body roll and poor handling for the gt500. Motortend did all kinds of tests and didn't report much of anything bad. Maybe it's late braking the car from 135 that gets it outta wack. I'm sure they did but it makes you wonder if they switched the toggles to track settings, they did on the camaro so I'm pretty sure they had to have on the gt500.

That's probably becuase the driver is from England. All the reviews I've read by Englishmen they all seem to hate live axles.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Hell ya for team camaro. They nailed the on track performance. It sounds like the car has a telepathic ability to translate inputs onto the track flawlessly. The mr and irs do wonders, now if Chevy would tear 500lbs outta the car, it'd be a Ferrari beater easy. Throw an extra 100hp in and it would easily run 7:30's at the ring.

Ford needs to get an IRS under the rear and adjust the suspension from the sounds of this review. A little weight reduction would help also, 250#'s taken out plus a new chassis with irs should help a ton; quantum leap in finesse and control. 700hp could be in the cards as well.

Funny thing is this is the only review I've seen where they claim high body roll and poor handling for the gt500. Motortend did all kinds of tests and didn't report much of anything bad. Maybe it's late braking the car from 135 that gets it outta wack. I'm sure they did but it makes you wonder if they switched the toggles to track settings, they did on the camaro so I'm pretty sure they had to have on the gt500.

I think the gt500 requires a real pro to get the max out of it, the zl1 will pretty much always be faster with average to good drivers. Those times are a bit high for what I was expecting from both cars for that track; they aren't bad drivers but it shows in the review that they aren't 10/10 if they miss shifts every lap in a car with a built in wotbox. Even I don't do that on an archaic 03 cobra t56 which is much more of a beast to shift than a zl1. If they can't nail a shift, I ponder how well they are toe/heeling the cars. That alone corrects for under steer and makes a difference.

I was expecting 1:43 for the zl1 and 1:43.5 for the gt500 but I don't know the track conditions for that day; it rained a ton on Sunday and I think they tested over the weekend or yesterday but have no clue really.

I wanna see randy phobst or another pro run a similar test. It doesn't really apply but tires can gain .7 seconds pretty easy when the factory set wear out, why not go bigger/better? If that doesn't clean up the handling, a set of springs is a couple hundred bucks.

Good comparison none the less, more please!

2015 the IRS has been confirmed. I noticed the same thing. There is another review in the works by MT.

[Blue Maro Demon]

The ZL1 will outperform the 13 Shelby on the Motor Trend test too its a forgone conclusion that the ZL1 regardless of it having 100 less horsepower and weighing more is STILL faster around a road course and is a better handling car than the 13 Shelby every review has said this and the Motor Trend test will be no different. Theres too much tech in the ZL1 with the MRS the more complete car is the ZL1. Yeah for pure straight line performance and bragging rights the Shelby is the choice but for a complete all around performance car the ZL1 is the pick. The Shelby is more harsh on the road and the ZL1 rides better. This is also why Ford never released Nurburgring times it simply couldnt perform a faster lap there than the ZL1. If you want the BEST handling and decent straightline performance get the ZL1. If you want better straightline performance and a little less weight get the Shelby.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

The ZL1 will outperform the 13 Shelby on the Motor Trend test too its a forgone conclusion that the ZL1 regardless of it having 100 less horsepower and weighing more is STILL faster around a road course and is a better handling car than the 13 Shelby every review has said this and the Motor Trend test will be no different. Theres too much tech in the ZL1 with the MRS the more complete car is the ZL1. Yeah for pure straight line performance and bragging rights the Shelby is the choice but for a complete all around performance car the ZL1 is the pick. The Shelby is more harsh on the road and the ZL1 rides better. This is also why Ford never released Nurburgring times it simply couldnt perform a faster lap there than the ZL1. If you want the BEST handling and decent straightline performance get the ZL1. If you want better straightline performance and a little less weight get the Shelby.

Depends on the road course, Not all tracks are the same, if it is a track with lots of corners and elevation, The camaro will have a decisive advantage IMO. If it is a track with long straights and sweepers, the GT-500 might win that one.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by truth411

Depends on the road course, Not all tracks are the same, if it is a track with lots of corners and elevation, The camaro will have a decisive advantage IMO. If it is a track with long straights and sweepers, the GT-500 might win that one.

That and hot shoe as well. A driver that can tame the Shelby should be quicker in it but it's easier to drive a great handling car fast vs drive a bullet car fast. The Shelby handles well but the zl1 really out shines its handling. Grip is about the same in both cars but actual handling and confidence is quantum leaps better in the zl1 based on these reviews. A pro with lots of car control can tame the gt500 and run fast in it but the average driver will be much better able to go fast in the zl1; mr and IRS are huge factors for confidence

Handling trumps grip pretty much every time. Drive a '10 viper acr then drive a z06 with the zr1 suspension/tires/brake package, one has a bit more grip but the other handles so much better. Their lap times on most tracks are pretty close considering one is pretty naked with 505hp and the other is fully dressed in aero bits plus has 600hp.

Finesse and confidence go a long way in a chassis. This is why ferrari's and porsche's are so loved; the cars may not be the fastest but they are so telepathic and enjoyable that the driving experience is very very enjoyable; you could do it for hours.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

That and hot shoe as well. A driver that can tame the Shelby should be quicker in it but it's easier to drive a great handling car fast vs drive a bullet car fast. The Shelby handles well but the zl1 really out shines its handling. Grip is about the same in both cars but actual handling and confidence is quantum leaps better in the zl1 based on these reviews. A pro with lots of car control can tame the gt500 and run fast in it but the average driver will be much better able to go fast in the zl1; mr and IRS are huge factors for confidence

Handling trumps grip pretty much every time. Drive a '10 viper acr then drive a z06 with the zr1 suspension/tires/brake package, one has a bit more grip but the other handles so much better. Their lap times on most tracks are pretty close considering one is pretty naked with 505hp and the other is fully dressed in aero bits plus has 600hp.

Finesse and confidence go a long way in a chassis. This is why ferrari's and porsche's are so loved; the cars may not be the fastest but they are so telepathic and enjoyable that the driving experience is very very enjoyable; you could do it for hours.

Couldnt have said it better, The Camaro & Corvette are the ultimate in handling American cars right now. The IRS & MRS is the ultimate in handling performance and Chevrolet is ahead in that area. Though it is amazing what Ford has been able to do with a live rear axle. The Mustang will take the straight line performance due to the lower weight right now. Next gen the Mustang gets the IRS and the Camaro loses all its weight everyone will be on an even playing field again its going to come down to engines and overall car design.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Couldnt have said it better, The Camaro & Corvette are the ultimate in handling American cars right now. The IRS & MRS is the ultimate in handling performance and Chevrolet is ahead in that area. Though it is amazing what Ford has been able to do with a live rear axle. The Mustang will take the straight line performance due to the lower weight right now. Next gen the Mustang gets the IRS and the Camaro loses all its weight everyone will be on an even playing field again its going to come down to engines and overall car design.

You forgot about the Viper lol

[tt335ci03cobra]

The viper is not a great drivers car; it's an awesome track car and very fast but it's not a finesse car. It's got vague feedback; a Ferrari is usually slower unless your talking 458 or 599 gto but they are much more rewarding. That's handling vs grip.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Handling trumps grip pretty much every time.

So, when you put handling AND grip together, "end of story"...right?

That's what we thought/knew, too...

[72MachOne99GT]

I never thought I'd love ricer math so much, but I have to use it to justify my purchase.

5/10ths of a second in a 12 second race is a much greater margin of victory than 7/10ths of a second in a 1:40 race.

And that's a joke.

Hats off to GM for making the Camaro perform the way it did/has/will on a road course. I still find it fishy everyone here is suddenly a road racer and doesn't find quarter mile times meaningful, but that aside congratulations. I expected the GT500 to squeak out victories on a road course, and it still may on others, so I'm slightly surprised by our first two timed reviews. I won't sit around and cry though. Just a nice tip of the hat, a well played, and enjoy.

Also, I still think LoWDOWN is a turd, but a witty turd nonetheless.

[Bob Cosby]

6/10s (and 11 mph), but who's counting....