Whats up with GM?

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by J666

You have to got to hand it to Ford for spanking GM's ass. I hope they bring back the GT with the '13 GT500 power-train and spank the Corvette.

[v6sonoma]

The reality is performance while important isn't the top priority. The 4th gen excelled there but the Mustang's design sold more cars and because of that the F-bod's went away. Now they nailed design with the 5th gen and sales continue to climb. They did great with performance and I doubt many people complain that the car is to slow or doesn't turn. Sure it could be better but that can be said of any car. Sales is all that matters. As long as those continue they will get the funding to build them lighter, faster, and more efficient. Most of the owners of these cars (Camaro, Mustang, Challenger) aren't buying them over .01 in the 1/4 mile. Sure everyone loves bragging rights but in the end it's about the car they like most overall. This is where the Camaro wins and will continue too. The GT500 is, I'm sure, a great car and very quick, but I'd take a ZL1. I'm not going to the track every weekend or to the drag strip either and I don't street race so the marginal difference is negligible. You may not feel the same way but that's why we all get to choose what we own.

[TooCool5]

Last I checked GM was outselling Ford and has a hit on their hands.
How many of us can use the horsepower in their cars on regular street / highway driving.
1/4 mile track times are just feel good emotions of those who race.

[William251]

For a GM man that was quite the blue oval fanboy rant.

Also, let's not forget something. The mustang is both Ford's Camaro and their corvette.

[VenomInside]

I'll be honest. Back when the fourth gen's were out, I really didn't like the camaro all too much. I was in absolute love with the trans am's and ws6's that were out. Now those cars were MEAN. I used to have one.

The reason I bought my 5th gen was because there was a lack of T/A.

[1o.f00t.570rk]

Numbers can be manipulated to tell most any story. I like how the GT500 has improvements based on testing at the 'ring, but no info as far as a competitive lap, let alone with an in-car camera of the run. If their time was better, why not advertise it and try to trump the ZL1 even more?

As for the 4th gens - if the front fenders didn't mold into the side mirrors, I'd have liked them more. Didn't hate them, just didn't fancy them because of that one element.

[Fiftydriver]

Originally Posted by 9c1ny

I am a direhard GM guy and was so excited at the inception of the 5th gen, now 3 years later I am left feeling disappointed..............
I remember when I bought my '10 SS back in may 2009 I was so excited, there was little to no real world data on them and I had high hopes.
I remember the realization sinking in of under performing L99s and the fact that the 5th gen really was no faster than the 4th gen.
Magazine tests at the time favored the 2010 Mustang GT with the track pack, then the 2011 5.0 came out and the 5 gen was playing second fiddle.
GM did nothing to answer ford, not even a dealer add on package.
Now after 3 years of Z28 talk we have the ZL1 which fbodfather and Al O. talked about like it was the second coming, the numbers are in and again its second fiddle...................
The 13' GT500 numbers are in and its trapping 129mph! The ZL1 has yet to trap 120mph
I am willing to bet after all this talk of track times that the GT500 will dominate there too :(
Everyones still in denial hoping its still in "break in" mode , the reality is the GT500 is a superior car, superior to the point its taking aim at GMs flagship sports car , it could care less about the Camaro, it already has the GT and Boss to beat it...............
For decades the Camaro was superior to the Mustang, whats happened GM???
I understand performance is a small part of cars and the average joe cares more about cup holders than quarter miles but to people like myself this is heartbreaking.
The Camaro is no longer about the horsepower and performance it once was (I understand the current gen is the most powerful Camaro ever, speaking in relative terms) , its a novelty

My mother-in-law has a 2010 mustang GT. She bought it about 4 months after I got my 2010 2SS in RJT. She said she liked the color of my car so bought the mustang in pretty much the same color. Kind of annoyed me.

Anyway, her boyfriend things its a bad car. Took me for a few rides in it and unless he is hitting +5000 RPMs the car has no low end torque. Not to bad on top end with high RPMs but they are lucky its a manual trans or it would be pathetic.

I have driven the GT a few times, very weak on the low end torque compared to even my stock L99. Now if you get a simple engine/trans tune, there is no comparision at all, the L99 eats it for lunch. With a few relatively simple mods the L99 will easily beat a stock LS3 in power to the ground (same mods on the LS3 will certainly put it back on top) but point being, GM detunes these cars ALOT. There is much more left in the 6.2L then there every will be in the 4.6 L ford motor.

Now the new 5.0, thats a different story, very similiar output to the 6.2 LS3 but they put it in a MUCH lighter car with lower gears. Why GM does what they do is beyond me. Tune the L99 and LS3 correctly with a good set of gears (3.73 or 3.91) and not even the new 5.0 will outrun the camaro.

Plus, add to that the mustang is just a brick to drive. My mother-in-laws 2010 GT feels like work to drive, cornering is a pain in the rear and the rear end feels like its going to jump off the road with every bump you hit. There is no comparision with the new camaro as far as confort in ride. Even my now lowered camaro has a much better ride then her GT.

Yes its to bad that GM does not offer us these cars at their full potential which is easy to get, just costs us some more cash is all. In the end though, as mentioned, I would rather drive a slow camaro then a fast stang!!! The look of the two is not even comparible in my opinion.

Plus, if you get a SS, you can add some add ons to it, top the 2013 shelby's performance for about the same price pretty easily.

As far as I know, I have not heard of any customer numbers coming out on the 2013 shelby yet, all I have heard is factory promotional numbers......... Believe the numbers when actual customers are putting them down, not the factory.

[DuhKoDuh]

Originally Posted by 9c1ny

I am a direhard GM guy and was so excited at the inception of the 5th gen, now 3 years later I am left feeling disappointed..............
I remember when I bought my '10 SS back in may 2009 I was so excited, there was little to no real world data on them and I had high hopes.
I remember the realization sinking in of under performing L99s and the fact that the 5th gen really was no faster than the 4th gen.
Magazine tests at the time favored the 2010 Mustang GT with the track pack, then the 2011 5.0 came out and the 5 gen was playing second fiddle.
GM did nothing to answer ford, not even a dealer add on package.
Now after 3 years of Z28 talk we have the ZL1 which fbodfather and Al O. talked about like it was the second coming, the numbers are in and again its second fiddle...................
The 13' GT500 numbers are in and its trapping 129mph! The ZL1 has yet to trap 120mph
I am willing to bet after all this talk of track times that the GT500 will dominate there too :(
Everyones still in denial hoping its still in "break in" mode , the reality is the GT500 is a superior car, superior to the point its taking aim at GMs flagship sports car , it could care less about the Camaro, it already has the GT and Boss to beat it...............
For decades the Camaro was superior to the Mustang, whats happened GM???
I understand performance is a small part of cars and the average joe cares more about cup holders than quarter miles but to people like myself this is heartbreaking.
The Camaro is no longer about the horsepower and performance it once was (I understand the current gen is the most powerful Camaro ever, speaking in relative terms) , its a novelty

Originally Posted by stieger

For a GM man that was quite the blue oval fanboy rant.

Also, let's not forget something. The mustang is both Ford's Camaro and their corvette.

i agree with both of you!

[linc400]

If you are a die hard Chevy fan, I can understand wanting Chevy to have the highest horsepower top dog. But the Camaro is not the only car GM makes, and there is so much more to it than that.

First, with one upping, where do you stop? 700 hp, 850, 1000? Modifying the car with more horsepower and then putting it into production takes a lot of money. Money that could be better spent elsewhere from a profit point of view.

Would it be better to spend several million developing an ultimate Mustang killer that will sell a few thousand a year, or a Camry, Accord fighter that will cost less to produce and sell 300,000 a year and keep them from needing another bailout?

Camaro is currently outselling Mustang and Challenger and the majority sold are V6 and SS, not even ZL1. So even among Camaro lovers it is not worth the extra expense. Plus back in the 1960's, you could come out with a high HP V8 for the Camaro, and also put it in the Nova, Chevelle, Malibu, put a detuned version in the Impala, wagons, etc. How much more use would such an engine get now? Can't see it going into a Cruze or Malibu.

Plus as previously pointed out, the Mustang is Ford's only performance car. At times, even stupidly so. GM realizes that the Corvette and Cadillac performance cars are more expensive than a Camaro, and as such, are expected to be faster/better.

Ford on the other hand refused to give a performance engine to the Thunderbird or Lincoln because they don't want anything to outperform the Mustang. This is just stupid. Mustang buyers would not be looking at a T-bird or Lincoln, but someone that paid $20K more for theirs would be quite annoyed to have a much cheaper Mustang running circles around them.

[grocerygetter]

2013gt500s are on the ground and three + mag reviews this weekend and today.

[TPAJETSKI]

Originally Posted by VenomInside

I'll be honest. Back when the fourth gen's were out, I really didn't like the camaro all too much. I was in absolute love with the trans am's and ws6's that were out. Now those cars were MEAN. I used to have one.

The reason I bought my 5th gen was because there was a lack of T/A.

This>>>>

[King Sun]

the days of having the highest hp car is over. People are looking for the whole package now in days which seems like the camaro and the ZL1 have that

[9c1ny]

Originally Posted by King Sun

the days of having the highest hp car is over. People are looking for the whole package now in days which seems like the camaro and the ZL1 have that

so where exactly is the GT500 lacking??
Seems to have pretty serious creature comforts too

[amz]

I have never let .1 of a second , or a few mph decide which car I would want or buy.

Feel is important. Soul is important.