Volt Sleeps With the Fishes

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Here's a news flash....

Batteries do not produce energy. I think you probably already knew that. The energy in batteries has to come from some source and get transferred to the battery and then transferred out of the battery. This process is INCREDIBLY wasteful. I prefer to drive a vehicle that is the PRIMARY energy producer and not using 2nd or 3rd generation energy that most of which has been wasted.

People who drive electric cars WASTE energy. My SS is a primary producer. I save the planet. The volt is wrecking our planet!

If the goal is to make energy somewhere and then store it in the car (battery) and use it later, why bother with expensive batteries and junk. Why not just put a couple of inexpensive compressed air tanks in the car and use the energy in the compressed air to power the car. It's the same as a battery, but costs a lot less.

I think the eventual purpose of developing battery technology is taking advantage of renewables - can't really waste the wind or sun can you?

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by Tom Henry Racing

It is a niche vehicle and high volumes are not expected.

Higher volumes WERE expected. GM predicted they would sell 45,000 of them this year.

[Tom Henry Racing]

Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen

Higher volumes WERE expected. GM predicted they would sell 45,000 of them this year.

I was comparing volume to Cruze or Malibu.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

Thousands of people drive around with pressurized tanks in their trunk, but it's nitrous called NAWZZ

Nitrous Oxide is stored in liquid form at around 850 PSI. It is not by itself flammable although it can become a projectile at those pressures in an accident and oxygen does make a fire much nicer.

And last I checked, the tanks were not nearly the size required for a respectable range of a passenger car. Located in the middle of your trunk, as many installations are, it is well protected from crushing sheetmetal on impact.

I was only suggesting that 3,000 psi of a flammable gas is at the least a difficult proposition.

[DaBears]

The volt is way too expensive, period. For $10k less you can get a Ford Fusion Hybrid which gets more than 700 miles per tank of gas. In my opinion the Fusion is the most practical Hybrid on the market because of its performance and size.

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by DaBears

The volt is way too expensive, period. For $10k less you can get a Ford Fusion Hybrid which gets more than 700 miles per tank of gas. In my opinion the Fusion is the most practical Hybrid on the market because of its performance and size.

I'd be a buyer (one for the wife) if it was $10k cheaper, heck just make a cheeper version for us common folk who cant compete with the average volts owners yearly income of $140k+

I also don't agree with these federal credits/rebates if they use actual tax dollars that was taken from us american tax payers only to statistically help out these high socity buyers save $7,000+ on their new conversation piece sitting in the garage plugged into the national power grid. I'm hoping that's not the case.

[Tom Henry Racing]

Here is an actual dash readout. It calculates to about 342 MPG.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Tom Henry Racing

Here is an actual dash readout. It calculates to about 342 MPG.

DANG IT TOM! there you go again - confusing us with FACTS!!!

[fbodfather]

I've not had the time to read thru this entire thread - but I would like to give you some thoughts.

first - courtesy of our Legal Department: These are MY opinions and not necessarily those of the company for whom i work.....


1. Plasma and LCD TVs used to cost upwards of 6K when I started buying them for Autoshows. The same sized Plasma and LCD now costs around $500. the first generation of most things 'technical' will always cost more. As such - the next generations of Volt Technology will likely drop in price - and become more affordable.........

2. There is not one 'magic bullet' that will solve America's energy problems. If you google my name (mis-spelled in most cases) you'll hear me talk about GM's various energy solutions. What's true: If you are an auto manufacturer that's going to address all 'needs segmentations' of the car and truck industry, you will need more than one type of powertrain.

a) GM is a leader in Automotive Hydrogen Fuel Cell Technology. We have well over 100 Equini

(that's plural for Equinox)

(as Malibi is for Malibu....)

....in service that we loan to families in the D.C./LA/NY area -- allowing them to exerience driving a fuel-cell vehicle -- and allowing us feedback which is so important as we move forward......

b. GM is a leader in E-85 Flex Fuel - Chevy alone has over 3 million cars and trucks on the road today that will allow you to use regular gas or E-85. yes, E-85 is controversial - (isn't everything these days???) -- and the reality is that it IS a renewable resource -it can be created from industrial and household waste (which in my opinion needs to happen versus corn derived...) -- and as gasoline continues to rise, makes more and more sense......

c. GM is a leader in Active Fuel Management (Cylinder deactivation) - as much as some of you may not like it, it's one way for us to offer high-performance cars -- because like it or not, every manufacturer needs to hit CAFE standards......

d. GM is a leader in 2-mode Hybrid Technology. Further, GM started at 'the top' of the food chain, so to speak - by applying Hybrid Technology to the largest vehicles first......meaning inner-city transport buses....then working its way down to full-sized SUVs and pickups. (Not sure about 2012 - but in 2011 -- an Escalade/Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid got better city fuel economy than a Toyota Camry ....) Perhaps starting from the top is a better idea in terms of the impact on the planet?????

e. GM is a leader in electric vehicles. The Volt does something that no other Electric vehicle can do: You can drive it across the country without having to stop and plug it in. You cannot do that with a leaf......


f. "E-assist" will continue to be a part of our product plans - allowing 4 cylinders to provide the performance of many V6s - while returning superior fuel economy.

g. someone mentioned the Cruze ECO - it's rated at 42mpg and we have owners exceeding that figure. Go compare that with a Mini or a "SmartCar" (an oxymoron in my opinion - sorry - I'll go stand in the corner for a few minutes - but remember - MY opinion, not that of the company for whom I work....) The Cruze ECO provides "Hybrid" fuel economy without the 'Hybrid' price....... BUT - it's targeted for a buyer that's different than a Volt buyer........will people cross-shop? Sure - but there are some that want what the Volt can offer........

h. -- Chevy was a leader in CNG back in the late 70s and early 80s - we're going to offer it again - but it isn't the 'magic bullet' that will answer everyones' needs.....


Now - the Volt has become a political punching bag. It upsets the heck out of me - because I truly believe that had Toyota produced the Volt, we would be getting different remarks from a host of people - and our "Hollywood Elite" couldn't buy 'em fast enough! (again - MY opinion - which along with $2.50 will buy you a cup of designer coffee...)

A quick review: The "fire" occurred more than two weeks AFTER the crash test. The battery was NOT discharged as was instructed. (NHTSA was well aware of this requirement..but for whatever reason, evidently chose to ignore it - or perhaps unwittingly didn't do it for whatever reason...) Further - the fire happened on a weekend - with no one around.......(things that make you say "Hmmmmmm"....)

Once the fire occurred, another round of 'tests' ( read: Torture ) were performed....the battery and vehicle were put thru unbelievable torture that would have had most 'conventional' cars exploding due to fuel leakage.......but hey, why confuse us with facts? (MY opinion.......etcetcetc)

So - we'll continue to have Volt bashers. :(

I just don't understand why Americans and Canadians aren't proud of the fact that an AMERICAN/CANADIAN company is making inroads in so many areas - I guess I'll never understand some people.........

Lastly: for those who want to refrain with 'GM took the money!' - remember that in return for the 'money' (which no one could borrow at the time.....) -- Stock was given in return. You (the taxpayer) now own part of GM. That's not a bad thing. In fact, long term, it could be a great investment. (....everyone in unison: "my opinion...etcetcetc...." ) And NO - Mr. Obama is not 'calling the shots' -- trust me!

now - let me get myself comfortable in the corner..............

[PQ]

[philthy]

Excellent insight and comments (as usual), Scott!

Amazing how many people don't see the big picture.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

So - we'll continue to have Volt bashers. :(

I just don't understand why Americans and Canadians aren't proud of the fact that an AMERICAN/CANADIAN company is making inroads in so many areas - I guess I'll never understand some people.........

Lastly: for those who want to refrain with 'GM took the money!' - remember that in return for the 'money' (which no one could borrow at the time.....) -- Stock was given in return. You (the taxpayer) now own part of GM. That's not a bad thing. In fact, long term, it could be a great investment.

Once again, it's not about bashing the Volt, it's about being critical of bad business decisions.

I'm glad GM came back. And as a taxpayer/GM investor I want them to succeed. The Camaro exceeded sales projections. The Cruze is selling like crazy, as are Silverados, and alot of other GM models make money. Producing vehicles that make the company money is good, while producing vehicles that lose the company money is bad. As someone posted earlier, this has happened before and it cost GM a ton of money. The electric car has never been embraced by Americans, and anyone with a room temperature IQ could predict this one would fail as well. You cant simply force people to buy products they dont want. When the Gov't actually pays people to buy a product and it still doesn't sell, I dont see how anyone can argue that product has been anything but a huge failure.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Now - the Volt has become a political punching bag. It upsets the heck out of me - because I truly believe that had Toyota produced the Volt, we would be getting different remarks from a host of people - and our "Hollywood Elite" couldn't buy 'em fast enough! (again - MY opinion - which along with $2.50 will buy you a cup of designer coffee...)

The Nissan Leaf isn't selling either. Americans do not want electric cars. It's no more complicated than that.

And again, if it was about politics people wouldn't be buying any GM vehicles.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Lou_Dorchen

Once again, it's not about bashing the Volt, it's about being critical of bad business decisions.

I'm glad GM came back. And as a taxpayer/GM investor I want them to succeed. The Camaro exceeded sales projections. The Cruze is selling like crazy, as are Silverados, and alot of other GM models make money. Producing vehicles that make the company money is good, while producing vehicles that lose the company money is bad. As someone posted earlier, this has happened before and it cost GM a ton of money. The electric car has never been embraced by Americans, and anyone with a room temperature IQ could predict this one would fail as well. You cant simply force people to buy products they dont want. When the Gov't actually pays people to buy a product and it still doesn't sell, I dont see how anyone can argue that product has been anything but a huge failure.

then you and I will (I guess) agree to disagree.

Is it a bad business decision? When does that 'decision' get made, ultimately?

Again - if you read my comments, I talk about many different 'disciplines' in terms of powertrains. If gas goes to $5 a gallon or above, is it a bad decision? (remember - in most places of the country - recharging a Volt at night costs less than $2.00 to travel up to 40 miles......) Based on a cost analysis, the Cruze Eco is a much better buy than a Prius. Does that mean that Toyota was wrong for making the Prius?

(....and also don't discount the picture that Tom Henry posted.....)

As the old adage goes: "The opera ain't over 'til the fat lady sings" - I don't think she's even in her outfit yet - let alone ready to sing.......