NEW FIREBIRD

[shank0668]

OK WAIT AND SEE

[Gatecrasher]

OK WAIT AND SEE

I waited, and this is what I saw.

Since Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers are in the process of consolidating their showrooms, many were likely hoping for a halo product that could draw customers into the showroom. Hey, wouldn't a version of the upcoming Chevy Camaro badged as a Pontiac Trans Am revival do the trick? Maybe, but at the NADA conference this week, GM told these dealers that a Pontiac Trans Am is not going to happen.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/12/g...tiac-trans-am/

[stovt001]

The only other RWD project for Pontiac that I've heard about is the Alpha based small/midsizer that could be a G6 replacement. Its sounds now like that has been put on ice too. As discussed in the previous Pontiac thread, most of GM's RWD plans are being reconsidered and are on dangerously thin ice if not dead already. Enjoy the Camaro and G8 while you can, because even those would have been canceled if they were not so far along. So I'd expect for the Pontiac lineup to stay pretty much the same for the next few years. My guess is the only major change will be replacing the G8 with a rebadge of some other GM FWD family car at the end of its current life cycle. Also, if the new Matrix doesn't sell too well Toyota may back out of that. I have no idea how that partnership is structured so I don't know how it would really pan out, but I assume there would be some effect on the Vibe.

edit: Speaking of NUMMI, here's this:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-in...d-corolla.html

This in addition to previous complaints of quality problems. Too bad GM allowed themselves to become a part of Toyota's mess.

[Gatecrasher]

Enjoy the Camaro and G8 while you can, because even those would have been canceled if they were not so far along. So I'd expect for the Pontiac lineup to stay pretty much the same for the next few years.

I feel really bad for the Holden folks that build the G8. They're going to lose their asses if the G8 tanks. I just read an article saying that something like half of the Elizabeth plant's output goes to export vehicles. (US/Canadian G8, Middle East Chevy Lumina/Holden Statesman, Chinese cars, etc)

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

I feel really bad for the Holden folks that build the G8. They're going to lose their asses if the G8 tanks. I just read an article saying that something like half of the Elizabeth plant's output goes to export vehicles. (US/Canadian G8, Middle East Chevy Lumina/Holden Statesman, Chinese cars, etc)

60,000 cars isn't a HUGE deal for them, though...the plant is at near if not beyond capacity. GM is making Australia the Performance Capital of the world it seems...

Oh, and keep it civil, folks...*coughcrackpipecommentcough*

Originally Posted by shank0668

ok go to chevy nation go to club house click on camaro and then go to insiders perspective new camaro and 1 of those says it.

"Moving from the 3rd generation Car to the 4th generation car; first of all, our whole team - we were so excited at the Milford Proving grounds. A bunch of young engineers working on a new Camaro and Firebird...ah, what more could you ask for? It was just a great, great oppurtunity - and we were thrilled."

Is this what you're talking about? It's an excerpt of what Cheryl was saying....

[Roflmao]

Originally Posted by stovt001

The only other RWD project for Pontiac that I've heard about is the Alpha based small/midsizer that could be a G6 replacement. Its sounds now like that has been put on ice too. As discussed in the previous Pontiac thread, most of GM's RWD plans are being reconsidered and are on dangerously thin ice if not dead already. Enjoy the Camaro and G8 while you can, because even those would have been canceled if they were not so far along. So I'd expect for the Pontiac lineup to stay pretty much the same for the next few years. My guess is the only major change will be replacing the G8 with a rebadge of some other GM FWD family car at the end of its current life cycle. Also, if the new Matrix doesn't sell too well Toyota may back out of that. I have no idea how that partnership is structured so I don't know how it would really pan out, but I assume there would be some effect on the Vibe.

edit: Speaking of NUMMI, here's this:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-in...d-corolla.html

This in addition to previous complaints of quality problems. Too bad GM allowed themselves to become a part of Toyota's mess.

Pontiac and GM has some projects on hold, doesn't mean they will kill all of them. Sounds more along the lines of figuring out a new strategy with the RWD projects to make them successful with the regulations, but thats another story that was explained in the previous Pontiac thread.

I agree with everyone else that says there will be no firebird also, if GM finds a way to get the name back then maybe? Quick question for anyone that knows, does the Firebird name include the Trans Am name as well? Or is it just the Firebird name?

[The_Stache]

I believe Trans Am has ALWAYS been licensed by some racing group (I will have to look it up) and GM paid , YES PAID, to use the name for their car. The racing group allowed it because it was good publicity. Give me a day to look up the info, if i recall correctly it was Scott (fbodfather) that gave the details..

[Roflmao]

Interesting, was the Phoenix symbol also a borrowed thing or was that inovated by GM? i just got all kinds of questions >_<

[The_Stache]

Here we go... link to source at the bottom..

. Will the Firebird Return?

If you mean as a clone of the Camaro, nope.
A few people from GM have weighed in on this since the concept came out last January. Although the common thread is never say never, the thing that comes through is that IF GM used the Firebird name, it would be on a car very different from the Camaro.


2. Will the Trans Am name ever return?

To paraphrase Chris Tucker, not only no, but H*LL NO!!!
The problem as mentioned is that the Trans Am name is owned by the SCCA (www.SCCA.org). To make a long story short, John Delorean who had a habit of stealing race course names to apply to Pontiacs earned GM a threatened lawsuit when the Trans Am name was used on a Firebird appearence package. GM settled by giving $5 to the SCCA for each Trans Am sold. GM tried to get out of the deal when the 3rd gen Firebirds came out by naming the performance version T/A, which was dropped when the SCCA again threatened legal action, and GM decided using the full name & paying $5 per car was easier and cheaper than tying up their legal department when there was bigger fish to fry.

With the lapse in production, GM would have to renegotiate the useage of the Trans Am name with the SCCA, who will no doubt demand alot more than $5 per car. After 40 years of inflation and an equally long amount of built up fans, not to mention being locked to a $5 royalty that became relatively worthless by the time "Smokey and the Bandit" came out (we had runaway inflation in the 70s), you can't blame them. With all the other names GM owns and can create, GM would probally rather stick forks in their eyes than give away money to use the Trans Am name again.

To top it off, Pontiac no more wants to be associated with the historic Pontiac Trans Ams any more than Buick wants to be associated with Grand Nationals (another revenue negative name that has zero chance of returning).


3. What is the most likely way the Firebird name will return?

As a mid sized, G6 sedan replacement........ relax, I'm just kidding.

In order, first most likely the Firebird will be a sports coupe version spinoff of GM's upcoming small RWD architecture the way Camaro is a spinoff of Kappa. The next most likely candidate is a GTO-like car based on Camaro. Basically a high content, low-to-no option car that would start well into the $30K range. The $32,000 WS6 Trans Am was the most popular Firebird while the cheap Formula LS1 barely sold 1000 cars it's final year. Firebird customers have been far more willing to pay almost ridiculous amounts of money compared to the prices on the same car in Camaro showrooms.


4. Is it possible that if the Camaro is a success, then Pontiac will have a Firebird the following year or 2 later?

Only in the minds of 2nd tier car rags and never-say-die Pontiac enthusiasts..... as if GM would make a Camaro if they didn't expect it to be a success.

If the coupe market Exploded (as in with a capital "E"!), then we have an entirely different set of circumstances. But even then, expecting a Camaro with a Pontiac nose grafted on and new tail lights ala previous Firebirds and marketed to people who want a "Pontiac Camaro", again isn't going to happen. We'd probally see an upmarket coupe with a different personality and different pricing as I mentioned.

Also, it takes at least 18 months from approval to get a car to showrooms. No automaker is going to bring out a new vehicle, sit around and wait for the 1st year figures, then bring out a model the following year. Anything that comes out within a 2 year timeframe was already planned.

In short, whatever Camaro spinoff that comes along 1 to 2 years later didn't come along simply because anyone waited to see how Camaro would sell.

Link

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

60,000 cars isn't a HUGE deal for them, though...the plant is at near if not beyond capacity. GM is making Australia the Performance Capital of the world it seems...

I'm all for GM making Australia its performance car capital. Good things are coming out of there. Hopefully the Holden-designed cars really take off and GM can actually expand their assets and operations there.

[TAG UR IT]

diarmadhi, thanks for posting up that link and conversation. That's exactly what I was thinking of when this subject came up.

Sorry shank. Even though I'd like to see more musclecars out there (preferably from GM), the Firebird and TA just won't happen. We have been told to keep an eye out for something from Pontiac in the near future. But, not either one of those two mentioned will be it.

[Silverado]

I would think that GM learned from the last time around....if you want to sell more than the Mustang, you can't spread it out over 2 cars....they currently do the same thing with the truck segment. GM actually sells more trucks than Ford does. But, since neither the Silverado or the Sierra sell more than the F150, Ford gets to claim the top spot.

They shouldn't make the Firebird (sorry Pontiac fans). It will detract from the goal of Camaro sales (wasn't it said at one time they were projecting to ramp up to over 100K per year?). And, if GM is going to build another RWD platform that isn't a muscle car, they shouldn't slap the Firebird name on it. It wouldn't be right (i.e. Monte Carlo, Impala, Malibu, Charger...all names "reused", but not on the right cars...yeah, I know, all of them are nice, but GM reused too many "iconic" names on generic FWD econ-cars and Dodge took a muscle car legend and turned it into a family sedan....it just ruins the name.).

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Silverado

They shouldn't make the Firebird (sorry Pontiac fans). It will detract from the goal of Camaro sales (wasn't it said at one time they were projecting to ramp up to over 100K per year?). And, if GM is going to build another RWD platform that isn't a muscle car, they shouldn't slap the Firebird name on it. It wouldn't be right (i.e. Monte Carlo, Impala, Malibu, Charger...all names "reused", but not on the right cars...yeah, I know, all of them are nice, but GM reused too many "iconic" names on generic FWD econ-cars and Dodge took a muscle car legend and turned it into a family sedan....it just ruins the name.).

I totally know what you're talking about...though - I like to think of it as those cars having 'grown up' (expecially the Charger)...whereas the Camaro will remain Forever Young!

[myround0]

Just name the flaming bird the Phoenix, or you could go the route the singer Prince went and call it the CAR formerly known as the Trans Am and watch the SCCA cry.

We have to get THE tRANS aM BACK ON THE STREETS, IN MUSCLE CAR FASHION...The muscle car lives...

Keeping it under wraps isn't a good marketing stragety, People will go out and spend the money on a new Camaro and when the Am does come out, they will not have the money to purchase a Trans Am. It would be smart to start releasing news and info on the car right now, so people will start to save and not purchase that Camaro, knowing they have a Bird to buy...Marketing strategy needs to be sound if you want people to buy this car. Make the Am and give us some info right now...