A Challenger?

[CamaroSpike23]

the thing is it has gotten so bad with the hype over the new stangs, challengers, and camaros coming out, that dealerships know that they can gouge the market and add 5-25k to the MSRP because they can market it off as "One of the first ones off the line" and someone out there will pay it. to some people, they want that #1 out of however many came off the line first. and they'll pay to have it. but like tag said, it sucks for the rest of us in the middle range who can afford one for MSRP but thats about it.

the same thing goes for private selling, i have a friend who has his 62k mile 2002 SS for sale for $15k. he's had it up for sale for nearly a year now. thats honestly how much the car is worth, its in immaculate shape, but no one wants to pay that much for a used car, no matter the condition. lol

what i envision happening when the camaro comes out...

1. Some dealerships will mark up the price substantially in order to sell "1 of XXXX" to those who will pay it, while some dealerships will offer them at close to MSRP in order to boost sales and production
2. Some people will pay any price to have a new camaro, while others will wait in ordering/buying one for the market to die down a lil to ease the cost of buying one.
3. the camaro will not be made in sufficient quantities at first, which is a clever tactic to drive demand up... but then, you will see them everywhere.

all I can say...and this goes for everyone...

Dont plan on buying a new camaro on your first visit to a dealership.
check out the MSRP, and the options included. dont fall for their tactics. most every dealership will bump up the price, then take off a little here, and a little there, to make it seem like you are getting a great deal. or they will offer you a great monthly payment...which is NOT always a good thing. cus what you dont pay monthly, you will make up for in interest on that payment.
dont be afraid to tell the dealership NO. its that simple. if it isn't what you want to pay, dont pay it. dont let them guilt trip you into it. even if they offer you a decent price and they are the greatest person in the world, if its not what you want to pay, dont pay it. dont give in to the temptation because "its not the price i was looking for, but I can handle that" NOOOO. stick with your price. if they dont like it, walk away. its that simple. sure, someone might come and pay the dealerships asking price for the camaro you've been eyeing, but thats fine. id rather let someone else get ripped off than screw myself trying to scratch by cus I fell for a "decent price"

[stovt001]

Well, markups don't exist unless excess demand exists, so its not bad for the brand because for every customer turned off by high prices, there are tons who are willing to pay the high prices. They wouldn't exist if enough people were against them.

Also, MSRP really doesn't give the dealers enough of a profit margin. The difference between invoice and MSRP can be from a couple hundred dollars to a couple thousand. Out of that, take out overhead costs, salesman commissions, finance commissions, PDI costs, gas costs for test drives, administrative costs, taxes, insurance, and lot fees. And realize that most cars don't even go for MSRP. So you can see dealerships don't actually make profits on new car sales. So the rare occasion when they have a really desirable car that someone is shoving money in their face to buy, they should turn that down and give it to the person who won't even give them enough to meet expenses? That's patently absurd. If profits are outlawed (think rent control) then there will be a huge shortage of Camaros, and then they'll be rationed by under the table means. Either way, if you're looking to get a car where demand exceeds supply, one way or another you'll have to pay to get it. It doesn't matter if markups are illegal or not.

[stovt001]

Also, if you don't like the markups another is charging, shop around and you'll likely find a dealer willing to price it for less. The wonderful world of competition at work.

Also, if they were to charge huge markups on the Malibu as per the hypothetical given by silver turtle, then what's the prevent that family from going to another Chevy dealership or even get another car. There are plenty of options out there. If demand is high enough to create markups, the entire inventory will be sold anyway.

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Also, if you don't like the markups another is charging, shop around and you'll likely find a dealer willing to price it for less. The wonderful world of competition at work.

Also, if they were to charge huge markups on the Malibu as per the hypothetical given by silver turtle, then what's the prevent that family from going to another Chevy dealership or even get another car. There are plenty of options out there. If demand is high enough to create markups, the entire inventory will be sold anyway.

what if, what if, what if... your theories are wonderful and support the dealerships so well, you might as well get a job as their spin doctor that supports them raping the customers.

you have defended screwing the customer... and you have chosen to read almost NOTHING of what I actually said in my theories and scenarios... since you didn't read it the first time, I'll give it to you again:

1) the MSRP, contrary to your belief, is sufficient to keep a dealership in business presuming that they operate efficiently and do not have an excessively high overhead... I know you dont believe that this is true, but I used to work for a dealership and I can promise you that it is true... also, dealerships make money from their service departments, so your theory that they make money just from the sale of new cars is completely inaccurate.

2) when one dealership does it, they almost all do it... so in any town, it is very likely that if one dealership is adding a markup, most of the dealerships in that town are adding markup... thus screwing the customer who probably doesn't want to, or cannot afford to, go out of the area to get a replacement car.

3) there are Auto Auctions for selling at above MSRP... dealerships should not be damaging the brand by selling above MSRP... a dealership can reserve the right not to sell a car to someone if they feel they can make more from another customer, this is true... but posting the markup on the window is blatantly damaging the brand.

it is NOT good for the brand when people who can pay thousands over MSRP get all the cars and those that cannot pay that price get nothing... if you cannot see that then you are ignorant of the reality of the situation.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

what if, what if, what if... your theories are wonderful and support the dealerships so well, you might as well get a job as their spin doctor that supports them raping the customers.

you have defended screwing the customer... and you have chosen to read almost NOTHING of what I actually said in my theories and scenarios... since you didn't read it the first time, I'll give it to you again:

1) the MSRP, contrary to your belief, is sufficient to keep a dealership in business presuming that they operate efficiently and do not have an excessively high overhead... I know you dont believe that this is true, but I used to work for a dealership and I can promise you that it is true... also, dealerships make money from their service departments, so your theory that they make money just from the sale of new cars is completely inaccurate.

2) when one dealership does it, they almost all do it... so in any town, it is very likely that if one dealership is adding a markup, most of the dealerships in that town are adding markup... thus screwing the customer who probably doesn't want to, or cannot afford to, go out of the area to get a replacement car.

3) there are Auto Auctions for selling at above MSRP... dealerships should not be damaging the brand by selling above MSRP... a dealership can reserve the right not to sell a car to someone if they feel they can make more from another customer, this is true... but posting the markup on the window is blatantly damaging the brand.

it is NOT good for the brand when people who can pay thousands over MSRP get all the cars and those that cannot pay that price get nothing... if you cannot see that then you are ignorant of the reality of the situation.

1) I worked at a dealership too, and went through nearly every department, including accounting. Yes, the dealers often get rebates to get the car's initial cost below invoice, but even then, when you consider that salesperson and finance person commission (at least enough to live on) takes up nearly the entire pre-rebate profit over invoice, you need that rebate money to cover everything else. Even then, the rebate is about enough to cover all other expenses, leaving pretty much nothing else. Sure they make profits on the service and back end of the deal, but by providing the car for you, storing it, and making sure its perfect as you drive it off the lot, they have performed a service and should be compensated. Can they stay in operation selling at MSRP or below? Yes, but the margins are slim. Having a car that they can sell for a larger margin allows for expansion, new initiatives, or a financial cushion for hard times (like now).

2) Not true. We have a list here of dealers who won't do it. My old dealership didn't do it. Our volume allowed us not to (fixed overhead could be spread over a larger sales number) and some are in similarly good financial shape that they can choose not to (see above).

3) Auto auctions are different than dealerships. Its apples to oranges. And you can't really say the brand is damaged. Do you see people hating Dodge now that the Challenger is going for $20K over MSRP? No. They hate Dodge because they have bad interiors and heavy cars... The fact is, people vote with their dollars, and when they pay extra for a product, they're giving it extra votes. Attracting the demand to allow for huge markups means the product (and subsequently the brand) did something to attract higher than average popularity.

There is a difference between what you would like and what should really be. I would like to have free gas, but I have to pay for it, and that is how it should be. I would like all these government services and not pay taxes, but that's not life. I would certainly like for a dealer to screw himself over to give me a car for way less than the next guy is willing to pay for it (and screw that other guy over too) and in many cases, that does happen, but just because I want it that way doesn't mean the dealers have an obligation to cater to my whim. Many do, and they'll get my business, but many don't and that's fine, they'll get their business too.