Complaint about all the complaints thread

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by SScattergunSS

Hylton,

I swear, if you ever write a book, I want to order a signed copy from you!

Wow! Thanks for the compliment!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by speedster

Well written Hylton. This is how a FREE ENTERPRISE system works. We like it, we buy it. If not, we take our business elsewhere.

Thank you! In addition to your point, the best businesses react to their customers concerns because they are astute enough to realize that for every one person that speaks up, there are 1000 who feel the exact same way.

[Matster]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Sounds like you would do well in a communist society...

X 2

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

Oh come on now, you start a thread like this, don't even have a Car on order and don't think you've earned the Troll label? Come on now, Help me help you. Just because you've earned the troll label doesn't mean you have to keep it. Consider this an intervention and come back from the dark side.
Now heads up, I'm going to be out of town for a bit, so I won't be able to respond to your posts. I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

Chill bro. Every person that is posting about us whining or telling us to just relax and wait are one of the following:

GM employee
Car salesman
Did not order the car.

In other words, they are not GM customers of the new Camaro so let me ask you this? If you were GM or any other good business, who would you listen to?

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Chill bro. Every person that is posting about us whining or telling us to just relax and wait are one of the following:

GM employee
Car salesman
Did not order the car.

In other words, they are not GM customers of the new Camaro so let me ask you this? If you were GM or any other good business, who would you listen to?

And they all seem to insinuate that all are whining about the wait.... when actually it's more about why the wait. :(

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by 3 SS's

And they all seem to insinuate that all are whining about the wait.... when actually it's more about why the wait. :(

Exacty. They just don't understand. More to the point, they cannot seem to comprehend that there is a clear difference between sitting behind a computer and being a fan of a car vs. being a purchaser of a car. It's like they actually think GM should put just as much weight in their opinion as they do in ours. Like any product, the two individuals have entirely different invested interests in the subject.

[Matster]

Hylton, it would appear to me this thread shows that in todays world people have no idea what customer service means or the value of customer satisfaction. We live in a time where no one strives to be the best in their business, just not the worst. We have a "manager" basically defending this level of customer service, it would appear he doesn't see a problem with the current R6P line jumping situation. IMO, most people in business management when asked what their most important company asset is would answer their product. In reality, it is the customer. It matters not whether the problem is a real one or just a perceived one, it is still a problem and good management and customer service recognizes it just that way.

The expression "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining" has lost all meaning...our shoes are full and we shrug and say "ya, but what ya gonna do?"

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Matster

Hylton, it would appear to me this thread shows that in todays world people have no idea what customer service means or the value of customer satisfaction. We live in a time where no one strives to be the best in their business, just not the worst. We have a "manager" basically defending this level of customer service, it would appear he doesn't see a problem with the current R6P line jumping situation. IMO, most people in business management when asked what their most important company asset is would answer their product. In reality, it is the customer. It matters not whether the problem is a real one or just a perceived one, it is still a problem and good management and customer service recognizes it just that way.

The expression "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining" has lost all meaning...our shoes are full and we shrug and say "ya, but what ya gonna do?"

Very true! Instead of GM coming out and publicly addressing our concerns in a manner that displays an acknowledgement in the importance of the customer, I suspect we'll just get a scolding of sorts which will be written in a very rhetorical/condescending manner.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Chill bro. Every person that is posting about us whining or telling us to just relax and wait are one of the following:

GM employee
Car salesman
Did not order the car.

In other words, they are not GM customers of the new Camaro so let me ask you this? If you were GM or any other good business, who would you listen to?

You didn't specifically ask me but I would listen to the people that being rational, regardless of their position.

Since I am one of the people that has not ordered, I obviously do not feel the outrage that some members have at being forced to sit and watch while other people are getting their cars while I'm not. Oh wait ... I do have to sit and watch while other people get their cars. Difference is, my wait is several times longer than yours is.

You bring up the point of perspective. We all see things a different way because of where we are. Nothing at all wrong with that. But the assumption that everyone makes, regardless of their opinion on the matter, is that their own perspective is the 'true' one and everyone else must adjust accordingly. This is foolish. GM wants to sell as many cars as they can at the highest profit possible. Same for the dealers. Customers want perfect cars as soon as possible. There is an obvious conflict here, the most profitable course of action for GM is not to give customers cars in the sequence in which they ordered, and its also impossible for them to build a perfect car. Me? I have nothing to personally gain from any of this. If I complain, my car won't arrive any faster, and if I defend GM I won't be making any more money. I simply want to offer my opinions and knowledge to the enthusiast community and to help deflate problems that get blown out of proportion.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You didn't specifically ask me but I would listen to the people that being rational, regardless of their position.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who was responsible for customer satisfaction - who would you listen to? The customer, or the guy who likes GM and makes good points but in the end is NOT a customer?

My answer to that is that I wouldn't give someone who is not in the market a minute of my time. Sorry but I will focus my efforts on those that are my customers and those that are in the market. Nothing personal bro - just business.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Since I am one of the people that has not ordered, I obviously do not feel the outrage that some members have at being forced to sit and watch while other people are getting their cars while I'm not. Oh wait ... I do have to sit and watch while other people get their cars. Difference is, my wait is several times longer than yours is.

The difference is, your wait is YOUR decision - it's not the same as someone who made a financial comittment and is waiting on someone elses actions.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You bring up the point of perspective. We all see things a different way because of where we are. Nothing at all wrong with that. But the assumption that everyone makes, regardless of their opinion on the matter, is that their own perspective is the 'true' one and everyone else must adjust accordingly. This is foolish. GM wants to sell as many cars as they can at the highest profit possible. Same for the dealers. Customers want perfect cars as soon as possible. There is an obvious conflict here, the most profitable course of action for GM is not to give customers cars in the sequence in which they ordered, and its also impossible for them to build a perfect car. Me? I have nothing to personally gain from any of this. If I complain, my car won't arrive any faster, and if I defend GM I won't be making any more money. I simply want to offer my opinions and knowledge to the enthusiast community and to help deflate problems that get blown out of proportion.

There is nothing wrong with your perspective. It is not wrong or right, it is just different then someone who has actually bought the car. In fact, you will never be able to understand what we, the buyer is going through until you are one yourself. No differrent then dating a women vs. being married to her. Your dreaming if you think life isn't going to be different after marriage.

As far as GM selling product at the highest price, GM sells to all dealers for the same price. They have limited say as to what a dealer can sell the product at. Should they encourage dealers to sell above MSRP? NO, of course not, and they regularily encourage us to shop around for the best prices. Why do you think every invoice on every GM car says Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price?

You contributions here are very much appreciated by me DG but sometimes, points need to be made by GM customers, not fans.

[thejbyrd]

Come on people lets have a little respect for each other. Bashing each other is NOT going to make your car show up any faster. It's simple, Camaro fans who haven't bought yet are just saying to chill and be patient and Camaro customers are stating the fact that it IS ridiculous that GM is not putting forth enough effort to get these cars out. Lets leave it at that.

[speedster]

Based on the railcar tracking (so this will not be 100% accurate) the count for VINs less than 2200 is at 27. I am super happy for the enthusiasts that are getting theirs, but approximately 1.2% of the first 2200 are on the list versus 36% of the cars with VINs over 2200.

i.e. Your chance of getting a car with a VIN over 2200 is 30 TIMES greater.

Patiently hoping the low VIN count rockets after the May 6th date.

[Eighty-Six Z]

I've waited a long time for this car. Lurked on this site for over a year, finally became a member in September of last year. Ordered Oct. 13th. I've never seen the car in person and never sat in it. I've driven lots of different cars in my lifetime, but I've always had a soft spot for the Camaro.

Speaking from a business standpoint, and someone that is in the middle between corporate decision makers and the acual process, you would be surprised to learn that all too often the ones that make the decisions are very disconnected from common sense. All too often business decisions are made at a very high level that the rest of the company has to live with whether they like it or not. Many times business politics drive decisions.

For example, the company I work for makes some pretty boneheaded decisions sometimes, but its does not neccesarily mean that the entire company is that way. In each company you have people who's job it is to make sure that the ones that make the hard decisions have all of the information possible. Many times, that information also comes into the form of suggested action only to fall on deaf ears. After working in a management role for a number of years and seeing the political games that are played within companies (often to the detriment of the profit margin) I now work in the role of process improvement. Process improvement includes, raw material cost, efficiency, and quality. I find the waste or problem in the process and make suggested courses of action. Not every suggestion is taken by the decision makers and that at times can be very frustrating. So I understand why Scott has not been on these boards very much lately. I choose to believe that he understands the concerns of the Camaro enthusiast because is probably is the #1 enthusiast on this board. He knows how frustrated some of us have become and I'm sure that he understands.

Anyway, that is just my take on how this process has possibly unfolded. GM has done some great things with the roll out of this car, but they have also done some pretty boneheaded things as well. Does that mean that GM is not well managed? Absoultely. But does that mean that I'm not going to buy a Camaro? No. I've waited 2 years for this car, a few more weeks or a month will not kill me. Sure, I'm frustrated with the fact that rental cars are getting out before pre-orders but I also understand that was a "buisness decision" that was made with little or no regard to the pre-orders.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

Oh come on now, you start a thread like this, don't even have a Car on order and don't think you've earned the Troll label? Come on now, Help me help you. Just because you've earned the troll label doesn't mean you have to keep it. Consider this an intervention and come back from the dark side.
Now heads up, I'm going to be out of town for a bit, so I won't be able to respond to your posts. I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

Before you fire shots get the whole story. Im losing my job so the smart thing is not to buy a car right now. My issue is that we all waited for this car but to nitpick on idiotic things is rediculous. Also I did not single out anyone.


Mods please close this thread. I think its ran its course.