Concealed gun owner accidently shoots 20 year old girl in head at church on a Sunday

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by PT145SS

.....Because I am a Husband, Farther, and a human being of sound mind, I am morally bound and obligated to protect those that depend on me. A gun is nothing more than a tool of last resort to help fulfill my moral obligation......

You don't have to justify anything to anyone.

I hope your family is always safe and secure and I hope you never have to draw your weapon out of fear or danger.

[Maxspeed]

All I can say is that if the innocent people who went to hear Congress woman Giffords speak, or the people in Nevada that went to IHOP for breakfast, or the people in the hair salon in CA, knew what was going to happen to them later that day, I bet they would have wished they were carrying for protection.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by jmaynard

Hmm, you obviously dont know 'that' many CCL holders. I carry daily and there is always one locked and loaded, emphasis on locked. There is always one in the chamber so all I have to do is relase the safety with my thumg and pull the trigger.

I think she meant they would know to empty the chamber before "playing" with it, not that one should have an empty chamber whilst carrying, as many models of guns require a round in the chamber for the safety to be engaged in the first place.

Originally Posted by PT145SS

I hope the ban hammer does not get me, but...

Because I am a Husband, Farther, and a human being of sound mind, I am morally bound and obligated to protect those that depend on me. A gun is nothing more than a tool of last resort to help fulfill my moral obligation. I'm not one for organized religion but I believe Jesus said to his disciples, "...if you do not have a sword, Sell your cloak and buy one." I believe Jesus did not want his disciples to be victims. So why not carry at church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or where ever one chooses to pray.

just saying.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

[dolt45]

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

Anyone who thinks its fun to run around with loaded weapons can have all the fun with that.

Fun has nothing to do with it (for me). I decided to carry after being chased through the parking lot of my apartment by a nut with a gun who was "going to kill me" because I complained to the management about his stereo at full blast at 2:00am. You never know where the nuts are until AFTER they go off the deep end.
I DO have fun with guns but the FUN stuff only happens at the range.

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

These guys with a license to carry see it as some kind of Reward or Privledge for getting their concealed gun permit.

It certainly IS a privilege. Reward? Maybe a reward for passing the mandatory training?

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

Just because YOU CAN carry the gun anywhere you want, does not MORALLY mean that you should.

It also does not morally mean you should not.

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

Interestingly (hypothetically and this is not referring to the guy above at all but...) someone can be completely UNEDUCATED and also be THE LOWEST CLASS person you have ever met in your life and THAT SAME PERSON can EASILY get a concealed gun permit.

Not really. To get a permit you have to have an absolutely spotless criminal record. You have to pass a course that you will fail miserably if you cannot read and understand the material or if you do not demonstrate that you can both handle your weapon safely AND hit exactly what you aim at.

Concealed carry is for the benefit of law abiding citizens who want some last ditch protection. Anyone who can't meet the standards above can always carry a gun without a permit (and they do). Even the worst candidate for a CC license is going to get some quality training and some stern warnings (even if they fail the course). Personally, I approve.

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

That reasoning by itself is frightening. The percentage of THOSE TYPES of people with a gun in their pocket is probably WAY higher than people want to know.

"THOSE TYPES of people" are everywhere and in every group. I'd bet money that the person who caused your last traffic accident was one of these types. Regrettably they are here to stay. Also regrettable is that there are some with enough brains to pass the test but without the sense of responsibility to use what they learned.

I don't have a problem with any of your opinions, I simply don't agree with them.

[Brokinarrow]

Depending on the state though, you aren't even require to handle a firearm (ever) prior to getting your permit and buying a gun. That, in my opinion, is inviting catastrophe. You don't get your license without going through drivers ed and actually driving a car...

[Rockin the BlueSS]

Originally Posted by dolt45

Not really. To get a permit you have to have an absolutely spotless criminal record. You have to pass a course that you will fail miserably if you cannot read and understand the material or if you do not demonstrate that you can both handle your weapon safely AND hit exactly what you aim at

depends on the state... i have to be attacked or have a documented reason and take and pass the tests (psych and physical) to get a CCW permit in kalifornia... yet Arizona is a no permit conceal carry state, any person with enough $ to buy a gun can conceal carry any where they would like with the exceptions of federal property, schools, or any facility that serves alcohol.

[JoshBobGuptaMarley]

Originally Posted by badgebunny

Well the guys just an idiot because most concealed carriers or people with brains would know to empty the chamber. Alot of my friends carry...

We hope so.... Hehe

[evan]

Def gonna chalk this one up to a person being complacent with his weapon. Not trying to downplay this terrible event, the guy has made a huge mistake and will pay the consequences to man and himself for the rest of his life. (Assuming he has a conscience)

[Nessal]

I bet them liberals are just frothing at the teeth over this one.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS

depends on the state... i have to be attacked or have a documented reason and take and pass the tests (psych and physical) to get a CCW permit in kalifornia... yet Arizona is a no permit conceal carry state, any person with enough $ to buy a gun can conceal carry any where they would like with the exceptions of federal property, schools, or any facility that serves alcohol.

Not 100% accurate. Most counties in CA are may-shall(no issue counties). It doesn't matter what situation you are. You WILL NOT get a CCW unless you are either politically connected or a celebrity. There are a few RARE exceptions however. For counties that are shall issue, there is no such thing as psych or physical test. Not sure where you heard that one from. You simply apply and you get a CCW given that you have "good cause"(which self defense is one) and go through a background check.

Your part about AZ is correct however.

[SC2150]

In almost every case I read about a "accidental shooting" I see the same thing....and its no damn accident. The gun has to be loaded, saftey has to be off (unless double action), round has to be chambered, and some idiot has to point it and pull the trigger. No "accident" about any of that.

We grew up when we hunted and fished to feed the family...at age 8-10 you already owned your first gun (usually a .22 rifle) and we had to attend hunters saftey before using it. This was taught ....get ready, at SCHOOL!!!. You were taught all the basic saftey and you brought your un-loaded gun to class. Always treat EVERU gun as if it is loaded was the first thing drilled into us. Always point it down and away...NEVER in the direction of a person was the second.

When we were old enough you were expected during hunting season to bring your gun to school (in the trunk, cased, unloaded) and spend the couple of hours after school hunting for small game unless it was deer season. Then you had the week off and everyone was hunting to fill the freezer. Venison was a staple we lived on all year. Chops, steaks, roasts, ground & sausage.

In all the years we NEVERhad a firearm murder, and never had a "accidental" shooting in our small city of 18k people. But every year some idiot from the big city (Milwaukee or Chicago) WOULD come up to hunt and shoot a cow, or a person just shooting at a noise.....but they were idiots w/out a clue and they are the same type idiots responsible in most case for these so called "accidental" shootings.

Now a kid in high school is found to have a butter knife in their car and they are suspended for "zero tolerance" weapons.....the crazier the rules get the more we seem to hear about idiots like this with no business carrying or owning a gun.

I come from a generation that so dosent "get it" with the crazy laws and stupid people that abound. Laws can never fix stupid....only responsibility and education.

My wife, daughters, and grand kids can all know how to safely use a gun and the daughters have CCW's as well.

Nuff of my rant.

[Rockin the BlueSS]

Originally Posted by Nessal

Not 100% accurate. Most counties in CA are may-shall(no issue counties). It doesn't matter what situation you are. You WILL NOT get a CCW unless you are either politically connected or a celebrity. There are a few RARE exceptions however. For counties that are shall issue, there is no such thing as psych or physical test. Not sure where you heard that one from. You simply apply and you get a CCW given that you have "good cause"(which self defense is one) and go through a background check.

Your part about AZ is correct however.

You may be correct (i have not gone through the process myself) but from what i understand there are a number of "interveiws" that you must have. In these interviews they ask some very morally difficult questions and situational hypotheticals are discussed. If that is not a form of psych evaluation I'm not sure what you would consider it. The bold statement is not all that true head over to calguns . net and see how many have ccws there. They are just hard to get and they make you jump through some extreme hoops.

Originally Posted by CC Performance

Put Arizona's law into effect in Kalifornia and what would happen? LOL

Depends on who you ask most assume: Blood flowing freely in the gutter as every person guns the other down. And the wild west is reborn on the asphalt streets. The collapse of society and the bodies piling up in the alleys

Arizona doesn't seem to be a war zone to me so... The laws only keep the honst people from having the guns anyway...

[c_LoW29]

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

Anyone who thinks its fun to run around with loaded weapons can have all the fun with that.

I am sure guns are fun to the gun enthusiast and I RESPECT THAT.

But like I said, I'm not joining any churches.

The guy above just PROVED that statistically speaking lots of people take guns into churches.

These guys with a license to carry see it as some kind of Reward or Privledge for getting their concealed gun permit.

Just because YOU CAN carry the gun anywhere you want, does not MORALLY mean that you should.

Interestingly (hypothetically and this is not referring to the guy above at all but...) someone can be completely UNEDUCATED and also be THE LOWEST CLASS person you have ever met in your life and THAT SAME PERSON can EASILY get a concealed gun permit.

That reasoning by itself is frightening. The percentage of THOSE TYPES of people with a gun in their pocket is probably WAY higher than people want to know.

I dont think that a person that wants to harm another person in church is thinking about Morals, with that being said I dont see anything wrong with carrying your gun at all times if you have the right to do so.

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by dolt45

....I don't have a problem with any of your opinions, I simply don't agree with them.....

I am glad you're opinions are not supressed. I didn't supress mine.

I'm not in your shoes.

But if I did say something that bothered you, don't take it personally. Tons of people think the same exact way I do about guns.

If you don't believe me:

Talk to someone at random while they are sitting down inside a church, show them that have a loaded gun inside your jacket and watch what happens.