HOT ROD Magazine verifies GT500's 650HP

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Did you forget the evidence that the driver said he ran a sub 12 second run in the ZL1? My point, once again, is that the current GT500, often dynoed at 570HP, doesn't run 11s at all. The 750HP suersnake (750HP) in the June 2011 Road & Track magazine ran an 11.7 on " a drag strip freshly coated with traction compound in cool weather" at Shelby's factory visit...now, the Ford guys are trying to tell me the GT500 550HP 2012 will match that equally equipped? If that's so, you don't get much for $34000 in a Supersnake, or you get quite a bargain in a GT500.

I have said all along I expect the ZL1 to run high 11s. the ZL1 and the 2011-2012 GT500 have nearly identical power to weight ratios.


If you want to get close to seeing what the Super Snake was capable of you have to read this:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...e/viewall.html

10.8s at 134mph is moving. And not something a ZL1 will even come close to touching with just tires.

and that was a 725 hp version. you aren't going to see anywhere near the potential of a 700 hp car on non dr or better tires.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

You realize they tested the ZL1 at 4,000 feet?

Yeah, just like the test with the Boss, and we saw how close those two were in acceleration. The GT500 is faster.

That still doesn't change the fact that comparing corrected times vs uncorrected skews the results.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Did you forget the evidence that the driver said he ran a sub 12 second run in the ZL1? My point, once again, is that the current GT500, often dynoed at 570HP, doesn't run 11s at all. The 750HP suersnake (750HP) in the June 2011 Road & Track magazine ran an 11.7 on " a drag strip freshly coated with traction compound in cool weather" at Shelby's factory visit...now, the Ford guys are trying to tell me the GT500 550HP 2012 will match that equally equipped? If that's so, you don't get much for $34000 in a Supersnake, or you get quite a bargain in a GT500.

Where in the hell are you getting that a stock GT500 dynos 570HP?

They make 550 HP Crank.

The BEST ZL1 time and 2010-2011/12 GT500 times are within 2-3 tenths of each other. Yet you think that is going to be 5-6+ car lengths?

Have you ever run at a track? When I ran against a 10.8 Foxbody that was setup for ET's, I ran a 12.4 @ 117 in 100+ degrees, bogging and missing 4th/shutting down @ the 1000 mark. He trapped 124, and ran 1.6 seconds faster. He was MAYBE 5-6 cars ahead of me, and not pulling once I started going.

I posted links of guys running sub 12's on the stock Rubber. Not 11's, but close enough.

Also, why are you comparing the Average GT500 times vs the best ZL1 time that "apparently" ran 11's, yet you have provided no link, timeslip or video of this acclaimed 11 second run. Some guy from a magazing posted on the internet stating he ran a high 11 on a certain day. That doesn't hold much ground and has little credibility.

[BigHemiSrt]

Bottom line. The ZL1 is NOT what ppl were hoping and dreaming for when it comes to purely 1/4 mile times. It is a drivers race between it and the current GT500. Again, not the spanking everybody thought it would put on the current Shelby.

On the other hand its probably even better on a road course than one might have expected. Which is amazing to me considering how heavy the car is. Its great time at the ring now is obvious wasnt because insane HP and acceleration. Its more suspension than anything. I have a feeling on street tires the ZL1 will be the quicker than the 650 HP Shelby around a race track.

Down the 1/4 and any straight line the ZL1 CAN NOT overcome physics. The new Shelby will drag it like everybody wanted the ZL1 to drag the current Shelby.

[HumanWiki]

Anyone that thought the ZL1 was or is a 1/4mi super star is ignorant and misinformed. I don't know why people keep getting stuck on the 1/4 mi stuff getting angry, defensive or butthurt over less than stellar numbers... They weren't shooting for a drag racer, that's what the COPO is for.

You don't need MRS and the extra aero for a 1/4 mile. You don't need a diff cooler. You don't need variable exhaust. Hell, you don't even want a stick... All of that is just added weight for nothing in that environment. Even the front tire sizes are all wrong for a 1/4 brawler...

It's a road/street car... not a drag racer.. I wish people would stop arguing over the 1/4 mile times..

It's like watching people bitch because a Ferrari keeps getting stuck in the mud while an F-150 goes right through it, so obviously the Ferrari is a bad car and is overpriced for performance.

I mean, damn people... This site has more hate and animosity than a Texas High School football game

[Stew]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Anyone that thought the ZL1 was or is a 1/4mi super star is ignorant and misinformed. I don't know why people keep getting stuck on the 1/4 mi stuff getting angry, defensive or butthurt over less than stellar numbers... They weren't shooting for a drag racer, that's what the COPO is for.

You don't need MRS and the extra aero for a 1/4 mile. You don't need a diff cooler. You don't need variable exhaust. Hell, you don't even want a stick... All of that is just added weight for nothing in that environment. Even the front tire sizes are all wrong for a 1/4 brawler...

It's a road/street car... not a drag racer.. I wish people would stop arguing over the 1/4 mile times..

It's like watching people bitch because a Ferrari keeps getting stuck in the mud and that an F-150 goes right through it, so obviously the Ferrari is a bad car.

By the nature of the beast 1/4 mile comes into play with these types of cars, it should be expected. Yes it has a great suspension, but pushing 580 HP from a supercharged motor and providing things like launch control (what need is launch control if it is only for the twisties and the road?) It promised a lot in BOTH aspects, and at least in that half of the equation is not living up to the hype and is roughly equal to Ford's OUTGOING competitor. I honestly wouldn't expect there to be that much of a difference between the 2 on a track either, though the ZL1 should have a bit of an advantage, should anyways...... Look at the 13 GT500, yes, it does have more HP, yes it ha launch control, yes it is capable of 200+ MPH, but to think it was only designed as a drag racer is Naive. It also has an upgraded suspension, improved aero, myriad of available collers, even has the available recaros made to hold you in place when going around curves!

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Anyone that thought the ZL1 was or is a 1/4mi super star is ignorant and misinformed. I don't know why people keep getting stuck on the 1/4 mi stuff getting angry, defensive or butthurt over less than stellar numbers... They weren't shooting for a drag racer, that's what the COPO is for.

You don't need MRS and the extra aero for a 1/4 mile. You don't need a diff cooler. You don't need variable exhaust. Hell, you don't even want a stick... All of that is just added weight for nothing in that environment. Even the front tire sizes are all wrong for a 1/4 brawler...

It's a road/street car... not a drag racer.. I wish people would stop arguing over the 1/4 mile times..

It's like watching people bitch because a Ferrari keeps getting stuck in the mud while an F-150 goes right through it, so obviously the Ferrari is a bad car and is overpriced for performance.

I mean, damn people... This site has more hate and animosity than a Texas High School football game

But I imagine some people get hung up on 1/4 mile times because that is the only real track time most people will ever see with their cars. It is also a lot easier to replicate a magazine 1/4 mile time (or best it) than it is to match a pro driver on a road course assuming you even have access to that same track in question.

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Anyone that thought the ZL1 was or is a 1/4mi super star is ignorant and misinformed. I don't know why people keep getting stuck on the 1/4 mi stuff getting angry, defensive or butthurt over less than stellar numbers... They weren't shooting for a drag racer, that's what the COPO is for.

You don't need MRS and the extra aero for a 1/4 mile. You don't need a diff cooler. You don't need variable exhaust. Hell, you don't even want a stick... All of that is just added weight for nothing in that environment. Even the front tire sizes are all wrong for a 1/4 brawler...

It's a road/street car... not a drag racer.. I wish people would stop arguing over the 1/4 mile times..

It's like watching people bitch because a Ferrari keeps getting stuck in the mud while an F-150 goes right through it, so obviously the Ferrari is a bad car and is overpriced for performance.

I mean, damn people... This site has more hate and animosity than a Texas High School football game

+10000 Thanks for posting something that the mentally challenged can understand.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

You realize they tested the ZL1 at 4,000 feet?

In all of the tests? I'm still interested in a logical explanation of why we would compare the zl1's best time to an average of the gt500 times.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Anyone that thought the ZL1 was or is a 1/4mi super star is ignorant and misinformed. I don't know why people keep getting stuck on the 1/4 mi stuff getting angry, defensive or butthurt over less than stellar numbers... They weren't shooting for a drag racer, that's what the COPO is for.

You don't need MRS and the extra aero for a 1/4 mile. You don't need a diff cooler. You don't need variable exhaust. Hell, you don't even want a stick... All of that is just added weight for nothing in that environment. Even the front tire sizes are all wrong for a 1/4 brawler...

It's a road/street car... not a drag racer.. I wish people would stop arguing over the 1/4 mile times..

I agree but I/we have to remind ourselves here that most are not as "car savvy" as some and to them, going straight is what it is about. Many get their experience and knowledge of other cars from reading magazines. People often put down the GT500's roadcourse ability when they have never driven a 2011-2012 GT500 SVT-PP which by the way is a pretty decent roadcouse car...just ask the M3 and 911 drivers.
Remember too, when the ZL1 580hp was announced, everyone was proclaiming it will rape the current GT500 but people forget, the GT500 is hundreds lbs lighter and on SRA. It makes me wonder why GM sent a car to battle a Boss when it should have demanded a test vs the current GT500 SVT-PP. Additionally, why some corners of the track were straightened out...clearly a design to favor the ZL1 with its massive power advantage. Those who can't see that, is in denial. I hope no one gets touchy with that last statement.
I think GM knew all along the Ford's 5.4 motor has a whole lot more room for reliable power than the LS3/LSA and the battle between the ZL1 and GT500 for a few secs of straight line racing supremacy belong to the GT500 so they focused on making the ZL1 take the fight on a roadcourse (clearly with its high tech suspension and driveline and brake cooling stuff) BUT, I think they discounted too much what the Ford engineers can do with the antiquated SRA and GT500 suspension. It should have been obvious there is still magic left in the SRA set up under the right engineers and they have proven that with the Boss. Yesterday's announcement that the new GT500 is faster in a roadcourse than the Ford GT is just . couple/triple that with consistent rumors/reports of mid 3 sec 0-60 runs and mid 11 sec 1/4 mile runs...... impressive no matter how you look at it. We can quote #s all day but until both cars are out and tested against each other, this non-sense back and forth will continue on....what, what am I saying? This will never stop. I like both cars and I enjoy this hobby a freaking lot more because I do like all cars not just 1 car or brand of car.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

+10000 Thanks for posting something that the mentally challenged can understand.

and, I don't want to sound like I'm directly beating on anyone.. Like, hate, love it, leave it.. It's the fact that we all have a choice that should matter. If it's worth the price, buy it. If not, vote with your wallet. Simple as that. Feedback is fine. Debate is fine.. But, we've been slowly trending away from debate in to full blown war and it's just getting old.

I don't have anything against you dirty ford loving... err, I mean, friendly car enthusiast from another vendor.

I just wish we could all cool it a bit and be a little more friendly to each other..

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

I agree but I/we have to remind ourselves here that most are not as "car savvy" as some and to them, going straight is what it is about. Many get their experience and knowledge of other cars from reading magazines. People often put down the GT500's roadcourse ability when they have never driven a 2011-2012 GT500 SVT-PP which by the way is a pretty decent roadcouse car...just ask the M3 and 911 drivers.
Remember too, when the ZL1 580hp was announced, everyone was proclaiming it will rape the current GT500 but people forget, the GT500 is hundreds lbs lighter and on SRA. It makes me wonder why GM sent a car to battle a Boss when it should have demanded a test vs the current GT500 SVT-PP. Additionally, why some corners of the track were straightened out...clearly a design to favor the ZL1 with its massive power advantage. Those who can't see that, is in denial. I hope no one gets touchy with that last statement.
I think GM knew all along the Ford's 5.4 motor has a whole lot more room for reliable power than the LS3/LSA and the battle between the ZL1 and GT500 for a few secs of straight line racing supremacy belong to the GT500 so they focused on making the ZL1 take the fight on a roadcourse (clearly with its high tech suspension and driveline and brake cooling stuff) BUT, I think they discounted too much what the Ford engineers can do with the antiquated SRA and GT500 suspension. It should have been obvious there is still magic left in the SRA set up under the right engineers and they have proven that with the Boss. Yesterday's announcement that the new GT500 is faster in a roadcourse than the Ford GT is just . couple/triple that with consistent rumors/reports of mid 3 sec 0-60 runs and mid 11 sec 1/4 mile runs...... impressive no matter how you look at it. We can quote #s all day but until both cars are out and tested against each other, this non-sense back and forth will continue on....what, what am I saying? This will never stop. I like both cars and I enjoy this hobby a freaking lot more because I do like all cars not just 1 car or brand of car.

--- plenty of times I've disagreed with you in the past.. but, I can see eye-to-eye with you on that.... You win some, you lose some.. It's competition.. We're all here to play.. We all have our banners we wave... Just as someone can be a sore loser, there are also poor winners. If our domestic car makers didn't have each other to compete with constantly, we would all be driving the same sedan in about 3 color choices..

If I get beat by an Oval or a //, well.. I see where I went wrong, try to correct it and try again. I guess I'm just really getting bored with the overdone attacks going on around here and wish we could just get back to friendly debate between brands and specs..

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

I agree but I/we have to remind ourselves here that most are not as "car savvy" as some and to them, going straight is what it is about. Many get their experience and knowledge of other cars from reading magazines. People often put down the GT500's roadcourse ability when they have never driven a 2011-2012 GT500 SVT-PP which by the way is a pretty decent roadcouse car...just ask the M3 and 911 drivers.
Remember too, when the ZL1 580hp was announced, everyone was proclaiming it will rape the current GT500 but people forget, the GT500 is hundreds lbs lighter and on SRA. It makes me wonder why GM sent a car to battle a Boss when it should have demanded a test vs the current GT500 SVT-PP. Additionally, why some corners of the track were straightened out...clearly a design to favor the ZL1 with its massive power advantage. Those who can't see that, is in denial. I hope no one gets touchy with that last statement.
I think GM knew all along the Ford's 5.4 motor has a whole lot more room for reliable power than the LS3/LSA and the battle between the ZL1 and GT500 for a few secs of straight line racing supremacy belong to the GT500 so they focused on making the ZL1 take the fight on a roadcourse (clearly with its high tech suspension and driveline and brake cooling stuff) BUT, I think they discounted too much what the Ford engineers can do with the antiquated SRA and GT500 suspension. It should have been obvious there is still magic left in the SRA set up under the right engineers and they have proven that with the Boss. Yesterday's announcement that the new GT500 is faster in a roadcourse than the Ford GT is just . couple/triple that with consistent rumors/reports of mid 3 sec 0-60 runs and mid 11 sec 1/4 mile runs...... impressive no matter how you look at it. We can quote #s all day but until both cars are out and tested against each other, this non-sense back and forth will continue on....what, what am I saying? This will never stop. I like both cars and I enjoy this hobby a freaking lot more because I do like all cars not just 1 car or brand of car.

I don't have either a GT500 or ZL1 or plan on getting either, so I really don't have a dog in the fight. But I read the article you mention because of general interest and I just don't reach the same conclusions as you.

I've said it before, and ignoring for a second the MSRP differences, I think the Boss 302 LS was put against the ZL1, because they are the "track cars" of the Mustang and Camaro lines. At least in the eyes of the greater automotive world. All the most recent articles regarding the Mustang included the Boss 302 LS, because I think that is currently Fords marketing focus until the 2013 GT500 is out. So I don't particularly find it strange the two were put against each other.

I said it in the other thread, too but the ZL1 out-performed the Boss 302 LS in more than just straight power. Here is a quote I lifted from that article in the other thread. I know I'm repeating myself, but I just reject the claim the ZL1 only won because of the power advantage:

Even without the big power difference on the straight, the Camaro would have been constantly making ground on the Mustang with mid-corner speed. The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still. Coupled with a stiffer body and more compliant suspension, the Camaro is a more capable car around the track.

I have no reason to believe that based on the Motortrned article, and the data provided in the charts, that the ZL1 only won because of the power advantage.

I know you wanted to see the ZL1 against a GT500 with the SVTPP, but I don't think there was any conspiracy theory behind it. Motortrend has been very good to the new Mustang in my opinion ever since they put it up against the M3.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Rock36

But I imagine some people get hung up on 1/4 mile times because that is the only real track time most people will ever see with their cars. It is also a lot easier to replicate a magazine 1/4 mile time (or best it) than it is to match a pro driver on a road course assuming you even have access to that same track in question.

I would love, love, love to be able to take my SS on "the" track over there.... Sadly, unless I win the Lotto.. That just isn't going to happen.. For the longest time, I was a 1/4 mi only person -- so, I can understand the blinders-on or the simple choice of using that as a performance metric.. But, many people over the years have showed me the different ways of showcasing a car's performance, so now I'm trying to pass that along as well.. I used to feel bad about getting beat in a straight line, now, I'm OK with understanding that straight-line is merely 1 way of measuring performance.