Don't know if I can buy a government car?

[Muscle Master]

Guys, it's called laissez faire,

Like someone said, the gov can regulate, but cannot be apart of free enterprises

[MrIcky]

Too many details have been left out. Blur makes some good points. On the other hand in my lifetime, I have never honestly seen the Government function on anything as if there goal was to get paid.

The stated goal of the party in charge is:

"Democrats will make America more energy independent, strengthen our economy and national security, and protect the environment. We will invest in clean and renewable energy and energy efficiency - and provide incentives for businesses to invest in the same. We will break our addiction to oil and reinvigorate our manufacturing economy by creating green jobs that cannot be outsourced. We will also protect consumers from volatile energy prices and make our infrastructure and transportation sectors more sustainable"

(source: democrats.senate.gov)

There is already a significant amount of pressure being exerted over the loans. The loans plus a 50% voting block would have very large ramifications on what gets built.

I also believe there is a HUGE disconnect between what the people on this board THINK America wants GM to build and what the current democratic leadership THINKS America wants GM to build. It has specifically been stated by the Congressional leadership that GM is "building cars no one wants". They believe no one wants SUV's and Trucks (37% of GM's sales in March) based on what happened during the last Gas price spike.

Note that the Senate has a stated goal of stable gas prices. Several proposals were made to set a gas tax to stabilize gas prices at between 4.00 and 4.50 by setting a floating tax. All attempts to float these bills were tabled due to the economic crisis, but they'll be back. And if the goal is to make money through GM, it would be advantageous to have pushed GM into a green retool prior to pushing those bills. It can be proven that what America wants for cars is directly related to the price of fuel.

I don't mean this to be political, I'm just trying to state facts. I don't even think Pelosi would disagree with anything I've said. The Progressive Democrat movement just has a very different world-view regarding cars and how they effect the planet as compared to the Camaro5.com readership.

(edit: 1 last thing, the current crisis and leadership plus the demand for help by several industries has had many politicians rethinking European style socialism. Laissez Faire is close to the edge of being history in the US)

[theholycow]

Not buying Camaros is a great way to make sure that they will stop making them. The government has created many badly performing companies out of a public need, such as Amtrak and USPS; but this is not a company they're creating to fill a need. This is a company they're trying to save (though I don't have a huge amount of confidence that they'll do it right). Their priorities are different here, and you can bet tax revenue is one priority.

One way to increase tax revenue would be to remove AFM and CAGS, which would put the SS well into gas guzzler tax territorry as well as raising GM's CAFE average and possibly exposing them to CAFE fines. I'd say this is as likely as expecting the government to put an end to the most profitable models in favor of econoboxen.

Originally Posted by BlackRaptor

Wonder with the new green push if it does happen the Camaro will become a 3 cylinder diesel with 88hp and 105 ft tq ha-ha

I bet a 5 cylinder turbo diesel could be made torquier, faster, and more efficient than the DI V6...

[dkb]

Originally Posted by BigRigMike

Do you have a link for this or was it in a regular paper?

I read somewhere specifically about the admin saying they wanted GM to cut 10 of their 20 profitable product lines ... most of which were the "gas guzzlers." All I can find at the moment is this George Will article where this point is insinuated ...

http://townhall.com/columnists/Georg...igner_in_chief

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by dkb

I read somewhere specifically about the admin saying they wanted GM to cut 10 of their 20 profitable product lines ... most of which were the "gas guzzlers." All I can find at the moment is this George Will article where this point is insinuated ...

http://townhall.com/columnists/Georg...igner_in_chief

I can't find it either, I think you'd have to go to the minutes- but Waxman specifically mentioned killing SUVs even though SUVs have better margins then economy cars.

[ArcAngel]

Im with the OP FORD didnt do it during FDR and there not doing it now, so I am going FORD. To me no matter what the rationalization is for the socialization of GM even temporarily does not sit well with me. I wasnt a proponent of the bailouts and am definitely unhappy with the 89% ownership of GM by the UAW and the GOVT. To me it goes against everything capitalism and this democracy was built on and in good conscience i can not buy another GM vehicle at this time. I know some of you will flame me and some of you disagree. Then again thats what makes America great our FREEdoms we all are free to choose and decide by our own conscience!!

[dkb]

I want my camaro ....

now to go all schizophrenic ... I'm just hoping my production event code moves to actual production from 3000 before the **** hits the fan ... and I NEVER get the chance to feel bad that I"m supporting a government owned GM with my monthly camaro payments ...

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Im with the OP FORD didnt do it during FDR and there not doing it now, so I am going FORD. To me no matter what the rationalization is for the socialization of GM even temporarily does not sit well with me. I wasnt a proponent of the bailouts and am definitely unhappy with the 89% ownership of GM by the UAW and the GOVT. To me it goes against everything capitalism and this democracy was built on and in good conscience i can not buy another GM vehicle at this time. I know some of you will flame me and some of you disagree. Then again thats what makes America great our FREEdoms we all are free to choose and decide by our own conscience!!

Personally, I have a problem with it too, not enough for me to be turn away from buy GM and Chrysler products .... but it bugs the hell out of me

[radz28]

Please - let's keep democrats, replublicans, socialism, etc. terms out of this thread. I hate to make it to where so much is vague but I don't let this go the road of pointing fingers at any parties and such. We won't be able to keep this open if it starts going that way.

I'm sorry but it's getting political (as much as this topic kinda' is)...

[ArcAngel]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

Personally, I have a problem with it too, not enough for me to be turn away from buy GM and Chrysler products .... but it bugs the hell out of me

Its rough man! I know!

[ArcAngel]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Please - let's keep democrats, replublicans, socialism, etc. terms out of this thread. I hate to make it to where so much is vague but I don't let this go the road of pointing fingers at any parties and such. We won't be able to keep this open if it starts going that way.

I'm sorry but it's getting political (as much as this topic kinda' is)...

My post had nothing to do with any finger pointing it is just stating what is going on. Sorry if I offended anyone. just how I feel

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by radz282003

I'm sorry but it's getting political (as much as this topic kinda' is)...

The topic is definitely political, but it was clean, non-partisan, and logical. That's the difference between what it was and what you're afraid it will be -- nasty, partisan, and overdramatic. I agree, let's keep it pleasant.

[ArcAngel]

Originally Posted by theholycow

The topic is definitely political, but it was clean, non-partisan, and logical. That's the difference between what it was and what you're afraid it will be -- nasty, partisan, and overdramatic. I agree, let's keep it pleasant.

BRAVO!!!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

My post had nothing to do with any finger pointing it is just stating what is going on. Sorry if I offended anyone. just how I feel

I know buddy - I just like getting perspective on this subject and don't want people to be offended and this thread go south. I'm simply asking to keep differentiation among parties/capitolism/socialism out. I'm not going to say that I disagree with posts in this thread, but it's important we just don't go down that road; right or wrong

Originally Posted by theholycow

The topic is definitely political, but it was clean, non-partisan, and logical. That's the difference between what it was and what you're afraid it will be -- nasty, partisan, and overdramatic. I agree, let's keep it pleasant.