2012... an FR-S or BRZ pulls up next to you at the lights...

[rez333]

... the driver is looking at you with a sneer, because he thinks that he's got the fastest car in the world and he's ready to prove it. What do you do?

1. do a hard acceleration to the legal speed limit
2. coast along and let him think your Camaro is a slow car.

[joey0480]

2...not worth my time or gas

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by joey0480

2...not worth my time or gas

This. Street racing is for people who want to take themselves out the gene pool.

[rez333]

You know it's going to happen over and over again this year. Since the S2000 took a bow, import fans have had nothing to play "Fast and Furious" with. They have had to do up Corollas and Civics and since those cars don't actually look like sports cars, that's kept them in line. But the FR-S/BRZ *looks* fast, and ricers equate looks with speed.

Few people for example know that in the 90s the American cars were faster than anything from Japan and most of the stuff coming out of Europe. Even the NSX was no match for American cars. History repeats itself, and the FR-S/BRZ gives the ricers an excuse to remain ignorant.

[rez333]

Originally Posted by SS 376

This. Street racing is for people who want to take themselves out the gene pool.

*racing* is not an option. I'm saying "hard acceleration" - the kind you would normally do regardless of whoever is next to you; not full-out illegal stuff.

A fairly subdued hard acceleration can still beat an FR-S off the line - the question is - would you do that, or would you purposely do a "minivan launch"?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by rez333

You know it's going to happen over and over again this year. Since the S2000 took a bow, import fans have had nothing to play "Fast and Furious" with. They have had to do up Corollas and Civics and since those cars don't actually look like sports cars, that's kept them in line. But the FR-S/BRZ *looks* fast, and ricers equate looks with speed.

Few people for example know that in the 90s the American cars were faster than anything from Japan and most of the stuff coming out of Europe. Even the NSX was no match for American cars. History repeats itself, and the FR-S/BRZ gives the ricers an excuse to remain ignorant.

So the lt1 c4* vette was faster than the 93-97 supra and 3000gt vr4? Are you only talking about 97+ american cars or the then $70k zr1? The viper wasn't even that quick until 97. The brz/fr-s is not a straight line car by any means, it's a go cart. I doubt you're going to see a lot of them revving at you at street lights. How often do you see mazda miatas drag racing? Most will probably be more interested in autocross. The one you're going to see all the stupid canister mufflers and fake wheels on is the veloster turbo. That's going to be the new fast and furious mobile.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by rez333

*racing* is not an option. I'm saying "hard acceleration" - the kind you would normally do regardless of whoever is next to you; not full-out illegal stuff.

A fairly subdued hard acceleration can still beat an FR-S off the line - the question is - would you do that, or would you purposely do a "minivan launch"?

Hard acceleration might be illegal if you break traction. Habitual hard acceleration will also accelerate wear and tear and reduce mpg on you car.
It is immature to consider who or what is in the lane next to you. Just enjoy your car.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by rez333

*racing* is not an option. I'm saying "hard acceleration" - the kind you would normally do regardless of whoever is next to you; not full-out illegal stuff.

A fairly subdued hard acceleration can still beat an FR-S off the line - the question is - would you do that, or would you purposely do a "minivan launch"?

You're making quite the assumption that subdued acceleration will beat these cars off the line. The driver could be better than you, the car is way lighter and has a great power to weight ratio.

Its a BRZ or FR-S going to hang with an SS in the 1/4 mile? No. But with people of various skills just screwing around on the road, I can assure you it won't be a guaranteed win and then you have: The Cops. The Cops who don't care if you're just accelerating hard or actually racing, they will bust your ass back to next Tuesday if they see you doing it.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

So the lt1 c5 vette was faster than the 93-97 supra and 3000gt vr4? Are you only talking about 97+ american cars or the then $70k zr1? The brz/fr-s is not a straight line car by any means, it's a go cart. I doubt you're going to see a lot of them revving at you at street lights. How often do you see mazda miatas drag racing?

The 3000GT VR4 was nothing special performance wise as it was very heavy thanks to the AWD system, now the Supra (and only the Turbo) has a horspeower and slight curb weight disadvantage to the LT1 Vette. The Corvette would likely take it 9 times out of 10 given equal drivers.

Still to say "In the 90's American cars were faster than anything out of Japan" is a bit of a reach. Japan had a lot of performance cars at that time, some of them were very light and quick.

[upflying]

Thanks Rouge, this is what the cops in Ca will use against you. Says nothing about hard acceleration up to the speed limit.
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23109.htm

[full of days]

Invite him to do an HPDE event at the local road course :-)

[rez333]

So let me get this straight, for those who own an SS, you just use all that power to over-take? The only other time you use power is on the track?

Almost 100,000 people in N.America buy Camaros, and what 40-60% of them are SS, and they're all on the track?

I am not suggesting a hard acceleration that loses traction - just call it "whatever you feel is still legal". All over the world, car drivers discuss handling and cornering on windy roads without people getting their knickers in a twist; but a little spirited acceleration on a muscle car forum is so evil?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

You're making quite the assumption that subdued acceleration will beat these cars off the line. The driver could be better than you, the car is way lighter and has a great power to weight ratio.

Its a BRZ or FR-S going to hang with an SS in the 1/4 mile? No. But with people of various skills just screwing around on the road, I can assure you it won't be a guaranteed win and then you have: The Cops. The Cops who don't care if you're just accelerating hard or actually racing, they will bust your ass back to next Tuesday if they see you doing it.



The 3000GT VR4 was nothing special performance wise as it was very heavy thanks to the AWD system, now the Supra (and only the Turbo) has a horspeower and slight curb weight disadvantage to the LT1 Vette. The Corvette would likely take it 9 times out of 10 given equal drivers.

Still to say "In the 90's American cars were faster than anything out of Japan" is a bit of a reach. Japan had a lot of performance cars at that time, some of them were very light and quick.

The tt supras were much quicker in the 1/4 than an lt1 vette. I don't know where you get the idea that the supra has a power disadvantage to the lt1, that's simply inaccurate. Stock supras consistently put down mid 13s, low 13s have been done by some of the guys that have stayed stock long enough to make a lot of passes. VR4s with a proper awd launch are perfectly capable of mid 13s as well. Most lt1 vettes will run a high 13 on a good pass and on track both the vr4 and supra handed the c4 it's ass. The c5 with the ls1 brought the game back into GM's favor, but it was not until then that the corvette and viper started to take over the game again.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by rez333

So let me get this straight, for those who own an SS, you just use all that power to over-take? The only other time you use power is on the track?

Almost 100,000 people in N.America buy Camaros, and what 40-60% of them are SS, and they're all on the track?

I am not suggesting a hard acceleration that loses traction - just call it "whatever you feel is still legal". All over the world, car drivers discuss handling and cornering on windy roads without people getting their knickers in a twist; but a little spirited acceleration on a muscle car forum is so evil?

I accelerate hard pretty often. However your suggestion of doing it while another car who intends to do the same thing is right next to you, is drag racing. No its not a big deal, but to the cops who love to take cars for that it is.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The tt supras were much quicker in the 1/4 than an lt1 vette. I don't know where you get the idea that the supra has a power disadvantage to the lt1, that's simply inaccurate. Stock supras consistently put down mid 13s, low 13s have been done by some of the guys that have stayed stock long enough to make a lot of passes. VR4s with a proper awd launch are perfectly capable of mid 13s as well. Most lt1 vettes will run a high 13 on a good pass and on track both the vr4 and supra handed the c4 it's ass. The c5 with the ls1 brought the game back into GM's favor, but it was not until then that the corvette and viper started to take over the game again.

The TT Supra stock was only 276hp and had less torque than an LT1 Vette (300hp), it also weighed more. The Vette on the street would beat it off the line although you are right the stock 1/4 time was what I read 13.3 vs the Vette's 13.6. This is Magazine times, I'm talking about real life where you may not even make it 1/4 mile and you don't know whos behind the wheel. To think that .3 (on a magazine time) is a guaranteed win, vs a car with more torque, is not likely.

The fastest stock VR4 time I could find was for a 2001 and it was 13.7, hardly a blazing time especially for 320hp and twin turbos.

Still my point was that the Japanese cars were as fast as and sometimes faster than the same vintage American cars. I wouldn't call either one "faster".

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by rez333

So let me get this straight, for those who own an SS, you just use all that power to over-take? The only other time you use power is on the track?

Almost 100,000 people in N.America buy Camaros, and what 40-60% of them are SS, and they're all on the track?

I am not suggesting a hard acceleration that loses traction - just call it "whatever you feel is still legal". All over the world, car drivers discuss handling and cornering on windy roads without people getting their knickers in a twist; but a little spirited acceleration on a muscle car forum is so evil?

The track, on ramps, and passing people are when I hard accelerate. Beating some punk kid off the line is not only stupid, but it's also pointless. What's the point of it, so you can race them again at the next red light?