GT500 Nurburgring time?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Not at all. I think we all understand why GM was there with the ZL1 just as they have been with other cars from the GM lineup. There's no telling how many laps and adjustments were made to the ZL1 before getting that time and dialing in the car was the reason they were there!

In some cases, people make it out like all GM did was hop into a production ZL1 and turn in a 7:41 their first time around the track which is far from reality. It may have taken them hundreds of runs to get that time and do we have any evidence they were ever able to back it up with a similar run? Repeatability does mean something to me and others I know.

I recall seeing 40 laps, over the course of 3 days. Not sure if that was just one driver (Aaron Link) or the entire team.

[JusticePete]

The Ring is arguably the best place in the world to test suspension. The track has a wide range of surfaces and every combination of turn imaginable. It is so good that GM built a similar track at the Milford Proving Grounds. A great Ring time certainly delivers bragging rights, but engineering is the primary driver. Well no the driver was Mr. Link.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by SS 376

Ok, so now GM has to take the weighted average of 100 runs and then have the time slips audited by Ernst & Young, and then have everything notarized for you to be happy? The ZL1 ran a 7:41. The GT500 ran a 0:00. Why not just accept that the ZL1 set a very strong time and that Ford doesn't plan to do a run or publish the results unless it can top it?

Anyway, the side effect of those "laps and adjustments" you seem to be knocking is a better handling car for the end buyer, which is a worthy goal no matter what the final time was.

Quit getting your panties in a bunch trying to read something into my post that wasn't there. There's no denying that the time put up my the ZL1 was impressive; I wasn't suggesting it wasn't.

Frankly, I don't think you'll ever see a "verified" 'Ring time for the GT500 coming forth from Ford whether or not they had a run that betters the ZL1's time. Other than to placate a few rabid fanboys who hang their hat on such a thing as a particular track time, what would it do for Ford? Like I stated earlier, unless they feel having a 'Ring time is going to help them or hinder them in making GT500 sales, what's the point in doing it? Of all the folks I have spoken to that are looking to purchase a ZL1 or GT500 this spring/summer, or that have commented on this board, not one of them has stated the 'Ring time as having had any part in their decision-making process.

I tend to agree with the points Rock36 made, myself.

[JusticePete]

That is interesting as a Ring time is an international benchmark. Even Mr. Toyoda can be found on the Ring.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

That is interesting as a Ring time is an international benchmark. Even Mr. Toyoda can be found on the Ring.

For engineers, no doubt, but not really for the vast majority of people who are actually forking over ther hard-earned $$ to buy a particular car. Do a poll and see where "Ring time" falls into the top 5 factors American's consider before buying a performance car. And I say American because, by far, they are the folks buying Camaros and Mustangs.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by tooslow

For engineers, no doubt, but not really for the vast majority of people who are actually forking over ther hard-earned $$ to buy a particular car. Do a poll and see where "Ring time" falls into the top 5 factors people consider before buying a performance car.

That is a sad commentary that reflects what I fear most -- a poorly informed populous.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

That is a sad commentary that reflects what I fear most -- a poorly informed populous.

It's not that they are poorly informed, it's just that those things are not high on the priority list for most buyers. Unless you are buying a ZL1 or GT500 to track every weekend, the full capabilities of the cars will never be legally achieved driving on the street and that's where 99% of the cars will be spending their time. And likely only on "nice" days and for relatively few miles. There will, of course, be exceptions.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by tooslow

It's not that they are poorly informed, it's just that those things are not high on the priority list for most buyers. Unless you are buying a ZL1 or GT500 to track every weekend, the full capabilities of the cars will never be legally achieved driving on the street.

No one can use the full capabilities of an SS or GT on a public road let alone a ZL1 of GT500. BMW became a huge success because it is 'the ultimate driving machine'. Porsche has done pretty well world wide. Even the peoples car is Ring tuned. There are certainly other desirable attributes to these brands, but I wish the Big 3 had started Ring tuning 30 years ago.

A well designed suspension is enjoyed at ALL speeds. A cruise down the highway is more relaxed. An evasive emergency maneuver is safer. Your favorite twisty is more enjoyable. A well tuned suspension makes any car more enjoyable to own and drive every day.

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Quit getting your panties in a bunch trying to read something into my post that wasn't there. There's no denying that the time put up my the ZL1 was impressive; I wasn't suggesting it wasn't.

Frankly, I don't think you'll ever see a "verified" 'Ring time for the GT500 coming forth from Ford whether or not they had a run that betters the ZL1's time. Other than to placate a few rabid fanboys who hang their hat on such a thing as a particular track time, what would it do for Ford? Like I stated earlier, unless they feel having a 'Ring time is going to help them or hinder them in making GT500 sales, what's the point in doing it? Of all the folks I have spoken to that are looking to purchase a ZL1 or GT500 this spring/summer, or that have commented on this board, not one of them has stated the 'Ring time as having had any part in their decision-making process.

I tend to agree with the points Rock36 made, myself.

You're the one getting bent out of shape. But I'm glad we agree that the ZL1 set a good time. Let's move on and leave it at that.


Anyway, all the arguments that apply to 'Ring times apply to 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Most people can't launch the car properly to achieve these times and wouldn't do it anyway. You'd tear up the internals or get arrested if you tried to do that every day. What's important is whether YOU like the car, not some numbers in a magazine that can be easily fudged.

[garcmol]

I drove the ring in a Mercedes Fahr Sicherheit trainung (driving school) for three days. Followed by six days of dizzy spells. I would love to do that again.

[Ltespd]

Ford had no problem publishing that the 2013 GT500 had 650hp and 600ftlbs of tq. Or that they had made significant suspension improvements. But what does that mean? Do the improvements work? Give me some times. Give me some numbers. I want 0-60, 1/4 mile, Ring, Leguna Seca etc. Tell us what the car can do.

[The IOM Ninja]

It would not in the least surprise me if Ford is able to beat the ZL1 around the Nurburgring Ring. They are likely pulling the same crap GM did and making people wait for the documented times or working on improving a lot of it..

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Ltespd

Ford had no problem publishing that the 2013 GT500 had 650hp and 600ftlbs of tq. Or that they had made significant suspension improvements. But what does that mean? Do the improvements work? Give me some times. Give me some numbers. I want 0-60, 1/4 mile, Ring, Leguna Seca etc. Tell us what the car can do.

They did, likely because they know those particular numbers will help sell cars to Americans. Again, Americans are the primary demographic buying Camaro's and Mustang's and far more of those buyer's visit the dragstrip versus a road course.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by tooslow

They did, likely because they know those particular numbers will help sell cars to Americans. Again, Americans are the primary demographic buying Camaro's and Mustang's and far more of those buyer's visit the dragstrip versus a road course.

It's a sad commentary on society, there's this guy with a SRT8 Jeep who thinks his vehicle is automatically better just because it's faster in a straight line. People seem to think 1/4 mile times are what are most important.