2013 Dodge Dart

[AngelSpeedFreak]

I think I would have to pass...

[DaBears]

Its now being reported that the Dart will have an optional 9 speed auto and achieve 40 MPG or more.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by DaBears

Its now being reported that the Dart will have an optional 9 speed auto and achieve 40 MPG or more.

So in other words, it will shift about 10 times every mile on average.

People say the manual is a dying transmission. I say, it will enjoy a revival as I think a lot of people will go back to manuals again just to avoid these nightmare 7-8-9 or probably soon, more speed automatics.

[its a syn]

Originally Posted by jandaseve

Isnt that a demon?

that looks like a Duster to me

[jlugo]

Originally Posted by midnighter

It would make better sense to name this little car a Dodge Omni.

[MAC]

(from article) "though the chassis has been both stretched and widened to accommodate the wider britches of American buyers" lol...

[jandaseve]

Originally Posted by MAC

(from article) "though the chassis has been both stretched and widened to accommodate the wider britches of American buyers" lol...

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

That's funny, because it is literally true.



"Most reliable in Europe" is a little like getting the best hooker on the corner. Sure, you got a better ride than others, but it's not something to brag about.

That doesn't just refer to ride and how about some PROOF their current cars are bad instead of your guess on cars that were sold here what, 30 years ago?

And speaking of lowering the bar, isn't the 2.0/2.4 a Hyundai/Mitsubishi engine?

No, you are wrong on that too. The "world engines" were a completely new engine. it was "codeveloped" by Chrysler, Mitsu, hyundai, and mercedes
. The "Tiger Shark" Variants are new to Chrysler and add such updates as Direct Injection. These are very good motors. the 2.4 in my Jeep now has 82k miles and idles smooth as glass and never misses a beat. The current Motor in the Mitsubishi Evo, Genesis Turbo, and the old Caliber SRT4 motors were all from this family. the TUrbo 2.4 is supposed to return, possibly in a Dart SRT4 and supposedly with 300+ HP

From what I've heard, something coming out of the plant will be badged as either a Dodge or Jeep or both, and is coming to the US. And I'm sure they have updated the plant, so I guess if you don't mind having stuff on the lot that came from Serbia.....

Possibly something branded as a Jeep, but for US consumption. While there a rumor some jeep assembly may move to italy for some US models, it now looks like various Jeeps will stay right where they are at right now.

The top of Chrysler's product line as always been a bright spot. Their problem is with the mid-size and below. The last time they were competitive in those segments, the Taurus with its 145hp Vulcan V6 was the hottest car in America. I'm not saying the new Fiat based cars will definitely fail, but I am skeptical that Chrysler can right that 20 year ship using re-badged cars from a company that has never been able to sell in the US.

Again this is not correct. The LH and cloud cars were always competitive cars. The downfall happened with the 07 Sebring and Avenger because Daimler cheaped out. This has mostly been fixed and evident in that they have been able to move as many as 11000 200s in a months time, which considering it is just a refesh of the Sebring is great. You do realize they are not simply using a rebadged Fiat right? the new platform is a version of a Fiat platform, but is a new wider version specifcally for the US (called Evo Wide I believe). That is the only fiat part. Everthing else, design, suspension, engines, transmissions, interiors will be designed and integrated, and tuned by Chrysler. As far as engines and transmissions, i would guess the new tiger Shark 2.0 or more liekly 2.4, the Penastar V6, and the new ZF 9 speed auto transmission (latest news is that the Fiat DUAL CLUTCH 6 speed will be a one year thing in the dart until the new 9 speed auto is ready.). Like the Dart, exterior and interior designs will probably mimic the Charger.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

So in other words, it will shift about 10 times every mile on average.

People say the manual is a dying transmission. I say, it will enjoy a revival as I think a lot of people will go back to manuals again just to avoid these nightmare 7-8-9 or probably soon, more speed automatics.

These new transmissions are intelligent enough to basically know what gear to be in. they have the ability to skip gears and shift in a way they are not noticed. This is the way it is going to be. Lexus has been using 8 speed autos for years as have others, and same with Mercedes 7 speed autos. It's called technology and it is now to a point where you can do things like this without it being an annoyance. And you know porsche now has a 7 speed manual in the new 911, right?

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Stew

These new transmissions are intelligent enough to basically know what gear to be in. they have the ability to skip gears and shift in a way they are not noticed. This is the way it is going to be. Lexus has been using 8 speed autos for years as have others, and same with Mercedes 7 speed autos. It's called technology and it is now to a point where you can do things like this without it being an annoyance. And you know porsche now has a 7 speed manual in the new 911, right?

That last statement wasn't really a blast against Chrysler, but against all of these new transmissions. I don't see a favorable advantage/disadvantage balance of having more than 5 or 6 gears. I get the fuel economy argument, but I think they have reached the point of diminishing returns with 6. (although some companies, cough, cough, Ford, cough, cough have done such a bad job programming their 6-speeds, that given the manner they shift on hilly terrain, I suspect they've reduced their fuel economy compared to the old 4-speeds).

The way I see it, all else being equal, twice as many gears=twice the failure rate (not to mention twice the weight), and probably twice the repair cost if it does break down. Add to that the higher upfront initial cost, and you never come close to saving enough gas to pay for these over the long run.

Also, with fuel economy being goal #1, I can tell you that these will rarely be in the right gear under most normal driving conditions. It will be programmed to dive into 9th, probably a 2000 RPM or lower on the interstate ratio, as early as possible, and basically keep the little four-cylinder in a constant state of being bogged down and feeling lazy under normal driving. And given hilly terrain, which I have where I live, this will force a lot of hunting with every little grade change, which is annoying (and yes, shifts are noticeable if you pay any attention at all while driving), and probably doesn't mean good things for the long-run durability of these units.

Again, this isn't a shot at Chrysler. I know its a direction that the industry in general is going, and for the reasons I just outlined, I don't particularly like it. If the future is going to be 8+ speed automatics, I think I'll be getting the manual.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

That last statement wasn't really a blast against Chrysler, but against all of these new transmissions. I don't see a favorable advantage/disadvantage balance of having more than 5 or 6 gears. I get the fuel economy argument, but I think they have reached the point of diminishing returns with 6. (although some companies, cough, cough, Ford, cough, cough have done such a bad job programming their 6-speeds, that given the manner they shift on hilly terrain, I suspect they've reduced their fuel economy compared to the old 4-speeds).

The way I see it, all else being equal, twice as many gears=twice the failure rate (not to mention twice the weight), and probably twice the repair cost if it does break down. Add to that the higher upfront initial cost, and you never come close to saving enough gas to pay for these over the long run.

Also, with fuel economy being goal #1, I can tell you that these will rarely be in the right gear under most normal driving conditions. It will be programmed to dive into 9th, probably a 2000 RPM or lower on the interstate ratio, as early as possible, and basically keep the little four-cylinder in a constant state of being bogged down and feeling lazy under normal driving. And given hilly terrain, which I have where I live, this will force a lot of hunting with every little grade change, which is annoying (and yes, shifts are noticeable if you pay any attention at all while driving), and probably doesn't mean good things for the long-run durability of these units.

Again, this isn't a shot at Chrysler. I know its a direction that the industry in general is going, and for the reasons I just outlined, I don't particularly like it. If the future is going to be 8+ speed automatics, I think I'll be getting the manual.

You are right, the maing focus is MPG, but tuned right, the more speeds can also keep a car in it's power peak more of the time, but you are correct, that is going to be all in the programming.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

That last statement wasn't really a blast against Chrysler, but against all of these new transmissions. I don't see a favorable advantage/disadvantage balance of having more than 5 or 6 gears. I get the fuel economy argument, but I think they have reached the point of diminishing returns with 6. (although some companies, cough, cough, Ford, cough, cough have done such a bad job programming their 6-speeds, that given the manner they shift on hilly terrain, I suspect they've reduced their fuel economy compared to the old 4-speeds).

The way I see it, all else being equal, twice as many gears=twice the failure rate (not to mention twice the weight), and probably twice the repair cost if it does break down. Add to that the higher upfront initial cost, and you never come close to saving enough gas to pay for these over the long run.

Also, with fuel economy being goal #1, I can tell you that these will rarely be in the right gear under most normal driving conditions. It will be programmed to dive into 9th, probably a 2000 RPM or lower on the interstate ratio, as early as possible, and basically keep the little four-cylinder in a constant state of being bogged down and feeling lazy under normal driving. And given hilly terrain, which I have where I live, this will force a lot of hunting with every little grade change, which is annoying (and yes, shifts are noticeable if you pay any attention at all while driving), and probably doesn't mean good things for the long-run durability of these units.

Again, this isn't a shot at Chrysler. I know its a direction that the industry in general is going, and for the reasons I just outlined, I don't particularly like it. If the future is going to be 8+ speed automatics, I think I'll be getting the manual.

Well thats why its good to have a 100k warranty.

[DaBears]

I drove a 2012 AWD charger with the 8 speed auto and it was smooth as butter. I put petal to the metal and it was quick and smooth shifting. I saw no reason to think it was too many gears.

[Stew]

Dart interior pics are out and man, I am impressed.

http://www.dart-mouth.com/