PHS certification?

[monstertodd]

I've been scouring ebay lately for a possible project car, and I keep coming across nicely restored cars that the owner claims is "PHS certified".

Anyone know what this or can point me to a website? I tried googling, but nothing solid came up.

[Russell James]

Pontiac Historical Society.

[Fightinfire921]

Todd check this link: http://www.phs-online.com/

[Scrappy Doo]

And the answer is already here..... lol.

What are you looking for OP?

[LOWDOWN]

Pontiac Historical Services, created/run by Jim Mattison, can serve up an accurate production record for any Pontiac produced from '57-forward, by VIN. His documentation is used to verify "factory-build" Model/Options, to help prevent folks from selling a "GTO" when in fact it was built as a Le Mans. Part of the due-dilligence one should use when spending BIG buck$ for a Pontiac "collector car"...

Too bad every GM Division didn't have something similar in place...although GM-Canada can supply the same sort of documentation/verification for any GM product built and/or sold in Canada, '46-forward. COPOs, Z/28s, SSs etc. are just a call from verification. http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage

[Stingr69]

The Corvettes have a document service for some years. I was able to get the Allied Vaughn Shipper docs for my '80 Corvette showing all options and the dealer info where it was shipped. Not all years are available yet but some are. You can access this several ways including contacting the Corvette Museum.

Several years ago, Jim Mattison was working on a similar project for older Chevy muscle cars but that project seems to have stalled with all the changes that have happened with GM.

Maybe some day I will have my docs for my '69 Camaro

-Mark.

[jasycz28]

I have a 1967 Firebird for sale if your still looking.

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by monstertodd

I've been scouring ebay lately for a possible project car, and I keep coming across nicely restored cars that the owner claims is "PHS certified".

Anyone know what this or can point me to a website? I tried googling, but nothing solid came up.

Todd, always get opinions before you buy a classic car. There's just way to many crooks out there seeking to get your money.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Stingr69

Several years ago, Jim Mattison was working on a similar project for older Chevy muscle cars but that project seems to have stalled with all the changes that have happened with GM.

When discovered, the old Chevy files were found to be in such disarray, spread far and wide, and water/age-damaged, the project was abandoned. Purportedly, some files were found stored in an old mine in Pennsylvania! Hell, they're only old papers...

[Stingr69]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

When discovered, the old Chevy files were found to be in such disarray, spread far and wide, and water/age-damaged, the project was abandoned. Purportedly, some files were found stored in an old mine in Pennsylvania! Hell, they're only old papers...

Interesting. Where did you hear/read that?

-Mark.

[MLL67RSSS]

Most any discussion of this is found on automotive message boards with lots of differing opinions and speculation.

The latest rumor that has been circulating is that records have been located and Jim Mattison has tried to obtain access to them to expand his services, but there are too many legal issues that have yet to be resolved.
In a nutshell GM did extensive searches of THEIR files etc. and could find nothing substantial. However there were many vendors, shippers etc., that did business with GM that are thought to have records of their own. Supposedly non-GM held records have been located. The legal issues are per original contracts, all the information is GM's intellectual property and legal right to it belongs to them. The unknown entity that has the information cannot legally release or profit from any of the information, could be dire legal consequences in doing so. Supposedly they had been attempting to work this through GM corporate for quite some time; who owns what, for how much, what they can do with it, etc. Then the financial meltdown occurred. With the current situation within GM and their headquarters, turnovers of CEOs, federal bankruptcy, and other dire issues this matter has not received any priority or attention.
There are still people that hold out hope that someday it may happen, there seem to be just as many people who say it is all B.S. And of course there are people who claim to know and have seen the information but can’t divulge anything.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

There are still people that hold out hope that someday it may happen, there seem to be just as many people who say it is all B.S. And of course there are people who claim to know and have seen the information but can’t divulge anything.

...including me...

[MLL67RSSS]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...including me...

To which part, hope, all B.S. or have seen the stuff?

I do believe, and there is documented evidence, that the search within GM came up pretty much empty. LINK But it is possible that there are other non-GM entities that do have some documentation.

Of course I didn't even cover all the conspiracy theorists that claim the information is being held hostage for fear that some high dollar "original" cars sold could be found to be fakes.
You have probably heard the sayings like: "They built 20,302 Z/28 Camaros in 1969, over 25,000 of them still exist,,,"

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

...including me...

Can I PM you a VIN to search?

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

Of course I didn't even cover all the conspiracy theorists that claim the information is being held hostage for fear that some high dollar "original" cars sold could be found to be fakes.
You have probably heard the sayings like: "They built 20,302 Z/28 Camaros in 1969, over 25,000 of them still exist,,,"

So very true and the crooks get better every day. I wish the NICB files could be opened without having a case number.