An open letter to fans of cncpics.com

[SVT2888]

Many of you don't know but I'm just a contributing photographer and make take the time to make most of the forum posts for cncpics.com.

Lately there has been a lot of bad behavior at Cars and Coffee Irvine. Most of the bad behavior seems to come from those drivers of mostly stock late model vehicles, which might be at home at your regular summer car shows, but are not really that special to show off at Cars and Coffee. These people seem to feel entitled to show off their cars and become offended when one suggests that they park their cars in the clearly marked exhibitor area.

Max the owner of the site, the one who keeps cncpics.com up and running for your viewing pressure wrote this letter:

For some time I have had a nagging doubt that posting the photographs from Cars and Coffee each week is contributing to the degradation of the event.

In the last few years the event has seen a considerable drop-off in quality with a corresponding increase in the number of late model Mustangs, Corvettes, Porsches, BMW's and the like.

Last week as I left the parking lot, I exited behind a minty Aston Martin DB5 that had not managed to get a show spot.

It occurs to me that many late-model cars have now become fixtures.

We barely bother to photograph these regular attendees, very few people will find a photograph of, say, a Mustang GT with chrome wheels very interesting. Except the owner, obviously.

I would estimate that each week something close to half of the cars in the show lot could be swapped out with something more interesting that was bumped to the public parking structure.

The other observation that I would like to make is that those that bring late-model, frankly fairly dull cars, are often the ones that make the most trouble, the ones that ignore the organizers and the ones that leave with the most, erm, enthusiasm and almost always they are the loudest and most aggressive.

Coincidence ?

Maybe.

Of course if the driver of the beautiful DB5 had got there earlier, he/she would have been able to show his car.

Also, of course, had the drivers of the Macy cars been a tad realistic regarding the showability of their cars, then there would not have been an issue.

So, what to do ?

Linda, our organizer and greeter, tries to direct people to the public parking lot, but is often ignored or abused. This is pathetic behavior. But it does highlight the issue, I watched a 330i driver flip her off and then hurtle into the show lot for suggesting that his car would be more at home in the public lot for example.

Again, what can we do ?

cncpics.com served a couple of million images last month.

Are we perpetuating the problem with the publicity that we give it.

This is not a comfortable thought, I am a car nut and I love to take photographs of cars.

cncpics.com has never, ever, made a dime nor do I want t to. I have personally worn out a couple of shutter buttons (seriously) and invested in additional hardware specifically for cncpics. The traumas that we have had with hosting services that cannot handle the traffic has be expensive to resolve too.

I started the site a few years ago, specifically so that I could share the event with friends in the UK. I had no idea that within a few years it would be serving a couple of million images each month.

Nor that I would be fretting that I am somehow responsible for drawing the people that are wrecking the event.

Should I simply close cncpics.com and thus reduce the exposure that the event has significantly.

Maybe leave this open letter on the single page ?

Or what should we do ?

I am honestly looking for inspiration !

Thoughts ?

Max

This past weekend we had three especially bad incidents. The first was with the guys in this Camaro who refused to accept the fact that the lot was closed. First they got confrontational with Freeman Thomas. They said their friend was reserving a spot for them and that they should be let in. First and foremost reserving a spot for a friend is strongly frowned upon at Cars and Coffee. It completely goes against the spirit of the event. Display parking is not to be reserved and it is there for the taking to whomever shows up first. Then there was the owner of a Lexus LX470 who also became irate when he was told that there was no more parking, that the lot was full. He claimed to see a bunch of spots and proceeded into the lot even though we tried to stop him. He proceeded to circle the lot for 20 mins until he found someone leaving. He was then asked to leave and again he refused to do so. At this point Camaro guy came right over and voiced his opinion once again.
The last person to be a bad apple was the driver of a trike thing. He did a burn out right at the exit and unfortunately the police officer who serves as security wasn't in his unit at the time to fine him. Steve, one of the other photography contributors, and I stepped in front of his vehicle and gave him a mouthful.

These bad apples are endangering the event.

Please help us keep these people from ruining this unique event.

Thanks,

-Leo







Cliff notes: Bad Apples contributing to the degradation of the event. Website contributing? Shut down site?

[SleepWarz]

sounds like the event needs to move to a place with more space.

[TaylorRyanSS]

I go every once in a while. Last time I went was in June I think. I hope my car is worthy of a spot!

[a_Username]

Just a thought...

Obviously the website and advertisement yall do is contributing to your success, but I think shutting the website down would be frankly terrible. It seems that, according to this post, that the event is coordinated on a "first come, first serve" basis. Perhaps the owner should consider taking reservations for spots on the main show lot, then the others can simply park in the public lot and "sign-in" on a guest sheet stating their name and type of car. You could then simply refuse drivers entrance to the "main show" lot without a certificate of said reservation; of course, taking reservations also allows you to be more particular on which car you let in. However, I noticed that you had trouble with drivers ignoring your "greeter." In response to this behavior, I would rope the main lot off and add a few security-type guys to oversee entrance/exit; you could also use the reservation and guest sheets to identify troublemakers and ban (or suspend them for a predesignated time) them from the event. Next, you should probably rent/lease a bigger lot to meet the big surge of viewers/participators; an alternative to this would to begin charging people for viewing or participating in the show.

[edgar3]

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

sounds like the event needs to move to a place with more space.

no, no, no. that makes sense.

[Overflow]

I don't get what closing down your site has to do with the ignorant people at C&C? I think your website helps the show in many ways. I would've never known about C&C without your site. I say keep it up.

[Apex Motorsports]

I have never been to the event but based on what I have read I think a lot of it could be solved by adding a couple more off duty police officers to the security detail. One or two posted at the entrance/exit to pop the morons showing their ass when they leave, one posted with your greeter, and one or two more scattered around the event just for general security.

You guys are also going to have to decide if you want the show lot to truly be "first come first serve" or "exotic and collector cars lot only". I get that you guys want it to be open but I would not let that kill the event. There is nothing wrong with establishing standards/systems to preserve the integrity of the event.

[LOWDOWN]

Selecting suitable candidates for inclusion on your site must be a challenge, Leo. By excluding anyone who creates "issues" would be a definite starting place. No sense giving those folks any "publicity"...

As to parking, and who goes where, that would be for the organizers to "organize". When you're full, you're full. Is there an adjacent spot for "overflow"? Could you segregate by "vintage" or "type"? Pre-[pick a year] go "here", newer go over "here".

"No good deed goes unpunished". Organizing a successful "cruise-in", as you're finding out, is not without its perils, sadly... Sounds like things are getting to be somewhat like what Van Nuys Blvd. cruises turned into, and we know what happened, there, years ago. "Outlawed"! And if more police presence is required for "control", that might spell the beginning of the end...

[SVT2888]

What people don't get here as that we are not telling people NOT to show up. We welcome visitors. The people we don't want are the ones who want to park their stock 2006 Mass Produced Snoozefest with the hood open in the SHOW lot and pretend it's something people want to look at just because they don't want to walk from the Spectator lot to the Show lot. Cars and Coffee Irvine has two separate lots for each group of cars. We aren't saying that you aren't welcome to attend the even if you're a stock Mustang, Camaro, Camry, etc. driver. Just park in the SPECTATOR lot and enjoy the show. Don't get all pissy when you are asked to go park in the SPECTATOR lot when you are trying to drive in the show lot either. Please stop for the greeters at the show lot so that they may direct you towards the correct area for you to park your car. Don't drive past them with your windows up and pretend not to see them. Yes we saw you Mr. Stock 330i driver you aren't fooling anyone. When we try to close off the lot, don't try to drive around the cones or even worse (which I've seen happen many times) go and actually remove the cones so you may drive in. Also we ask for car clubs not to "INVADE" cars and coffee. Sure you can have your meet here, but either ask the organizers in advance so that they may reserve a few spots for your club or meet in the spectator lot.

Thanks,

-Leo
Cars and Coffee addict who drives 80miles round trip from his Night Shift job to Cars and Coffee EVERY weekend like a dedicated zombie in his 260,000 mile junker just to bring images from the show to all its fans.

[Dr. Evil]

Obviously we are fans of the camaro but lets be honest. Its a mass produced car. If anyone wants to see one all they have to do is drive down to the local Chevy dealer and they can see all kinds of em. They are not that special to anyone other than their respective owners. I cant see why anyone would think its ok to put any late model mass produced car in a car show.

[Stingr69]

A few ideas:

Online pre-registration required for entry into main show lot. You would have a chance to weed out a few of the bad apples.

The pre-registration form will have a spot for thier drivers liscense ID number. No number, no pass.

Photograph every car/driver on the way in and be sure to include the plate number. Do not post these pix online, they are just for security reasons.

Put up saw horses at lot entrance and have someone assigned to man them to control/limit access.

Hope this helps.

-Mark.

[CamaroSkooter]

Charge $5 to park in the main show lot. Use this money to hire off-duty police officers that can actually write tickets if someone's being an idiot.