So...I test drove the new 2012 WRX STI

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker

Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
$73.73

Toyota:
$48



Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker

Source: Center for Automotive Research

GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.

Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.

When you have "unskilled" uneducated laborers making $73 an hour (with benefits included), you will not become profitable, period. If you don't have a degree and your job consists of assembly line button pushing, maybe you shouldn't be making the same wage as someone with a degree and specialized knowledge. There are many reasons GM was driven into bankruptcy, but greedy executives and UAW workers were absolutely the forefront of the problem. The lowest paid UAW members have wages many times a fast food laborer and they receive health benefits, as do the import auto makers workers, don't give me that.

Unskilled workers?

I would really like to go down this road, but Camaro5 is not the forum.

[brandotron]

The thread title is So...I test drove the new 2012 WRX STI , not "Let's have the same bullshit Union vs. Foreign vs. Domestic vs. Etc etc etc Thread again".

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Unskilled workers?

I would really like to go down this road, but Camaro5 is not the forum.

Investopedia explains Unskilled Labor
Unskilled labor provides a significant part of the overall labor market, performing daily production tasks that do not depend on technical abilities or skills. Menial or repetitive tasks are typical unskilled labor positions. Jobs that can be fully learned in less than 30 days often fall into the unskilled labor category.



These are the jobs that NPR gave average hourly wages for. Positions that require extensive training or specified education are not included in such a figure. You may not like the wording, but it is what it is.

[JusticePete]

Please let it go as I find describing an honest days work as menial.

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

No because of our tax and trade polices. Toyota and all the rest of the transplant manufacturing companies have gutted the middle class in the USA. When the state and local governments gave them carte blanche to locate here in non-union plants they became the instrument for dismantling of our economy. While people complain about over paid UAW and other union workers, they seem to forget it was those same workers that drove growth in our economy. The newest Asian trans plate auto plant pays the line workers the same as a a fast food joint pays people to flip burgers. The problem with that is you can't afford to raise a family on those wages let alone buy a new car or refrigerator.

When others complained about the government bailout of GM and Chrysler I take the stance it was long over due because in many ways the government brought them down. If the USA enforced any semblance of free trade and open markets with our trading partners there would still be a thriving manufacturing sector in the USA. All we have to do is look at Chine. While GM can't outright own a company in China, they can compete in the Chinese market with American products like Buick. China is in no way an open market, but isn't interesting that Toyota is struggling in China? Export products from American do not sell because of the manipulative trade policies of our partners.

It has taken me some time to come to this perspective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the products from Toyota or any other transplant mfg. It has everything to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA and a good standard of living for the middle class. We don't need to import third world wages into the USA with our tax and trade polices. We need to create an environment here in the USA that is conducive to manufacturing and open markets with our trading partners so we can sell our products overseas.

If we need to separate this from all things automotive we can look to Airbus. Airbus is a government funded and government supported company that has taken half of Boeing's market-share. Airbus would not exist if it were not government funded. American Airlines just split an order between Airbus and Boeing. That isn't free market competition. That is a government company taking jobs out of the USA.

I own a company. We make parts here in the USA and in Australia. I do alright and will adjust to whatever the government polices are to make a profit. My concern if for the average American that gets the short end of the stick.

End of rant that will probably be deleted for being political.

Not true.

In 2010, the average hourly labor cost per worker in the U.S. was $58 for Ford, about $56 for GM and $49 for Chrysler. That puts domestic automakers near or below labor costs for Toyota ($55) and Honda's ($50) U.S. plants, but higher than Hyundai's $44-per-hour labor cost, according to the Center for Automotive Research

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

[bigted83]

So how much money u make a hour working on a assembly line for ford or chevy?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

Not true.

In 2010, the average hourly labor cost per worker in the U.S. was $58 for Ford, about $56 for GM and $49 for Chrysler. That puts domestic automakers near or below labor costs for Toyota ($55) and Honda's ($50) U.S. plants, but higher than Hyundai's $44-per-hour labor cost, according to the Center for Automotive Research

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

Find the number from 40 years ago, then 30, then 20, then 10 and compare them to the current numbers.

[justa25thTA]

Forgot to add this bit:

Still, King said the UAW wants higher wages for entry-level workers.
In 2007, the UAW agreed to allow each Detroit automaker to hire new workers at a starting wage of $14 to $16 per hour, about half of the $28 traditional wage rate. That works out to about $30,000 per year.


That's not bad for an "unskilled labor job".

My wife went back to work last year (finally) and stumbled into a job at a doctors office as a receptionist making 16/hr. We thought it was fantastic.

The Dr's office posted this job on Monster and got over 400 reply's in a very short time. Apparently (in this ecomony at least) 16/hr is a great job. I know we are happy with it.

[jeff4946]

US economy is failing? O, I have an idea.... Cash for Clunkers! We will give you incentives to buy foriegn cars. And $55 an hour includes inflated benefits. That's not what dude takes home an hour. And what the hell would it matter. We should be behind EVERY American making a good wage.

[justa25thTA]

a business owner should be free to set his wages wherever he wants. if only wants to pay 5/hr, he should be free to. now maybe he can't find anyone to work the job for that pay, so maybe 6/hr. eventually you will get to a level that is fair to everyone. nobody forces the uaw to work, people are lining up for those jobs, what does that tell you? certainly not that they are underpaid.

[jeff4946]

Tells me your a business owner. And I'm a steelworker.

[POWERFREAK]

it's ugly and sounds like a blender.

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by jeff4946

Tells me your a business owner. And I'm a steelworker.

No, I'm just a lowly engineer who has to justify his pay and job everyday. Guess I am used to it.

[SleepWarz]

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

When you have "unskilled" uneducated laborers making $73 an hour (with benefits included), you will not become profitable, period. If you don't have a degree and your job consists of assembly line button pushing, maybe you shouldn't be making the same wage as someone with a degree and specialized knowledge. There are many reasons GM was driven into bankruptcy, but greedy executives and UAW workers were absolutely the forefront of the problem. The lowest paid UAW members have wages many times a fast food laborer and they receive health benefits, as do the import auto makers workers, don't give me that..

I think all these people with degrees need to stop taking their cuts from people who actually do the hard work.

Subaru, I'd love to have one for camping and logging road cruises.