2010 Mustang

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Bocephus

No IRS for the Mustang for the foreseeable future. The 2014 Mustang might keep the solid axle.

Well at least they stay consistant.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

Well at least they stay consistant.

Unless they begin to lose in the sales arena, what incentive do they have to make the change? It's not like 98% of people buying Mustangs/Camaros could tell you what kind of suspension was under the rear of the car anyway nor would there be a big enough difference in the ride/handling between the two that it would really sway their buying decision.

Yes, the other 2% of us that frequent boards like these and others do care, but we're not that big of a demographic to really be concerned about when you are trying to stay alive as a company. While some may deride the Mustang for it's lack of an IRS, I, for one, think Ford made a very wise financial decision by keeping it SRA all these years. It certainly did not hurt sales and the money it saved the car in both development and production costs on the Mustang is helping them put that money to work building cutting-edge technology vehicles like the Fusion-hybrid and other cars that will sustain Ford better in the long-term.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Unless they begin to lose in the sales arena, what incentive do they have to make the change? It's not like 98% of people buying Mustangs/Camaros could tell you what kind of suspension was under the rear of the car anyway nor would there be a big enough difference in the ride/handling between the two that it would really sway their buying decision.

I dont think thats true at all. See Ford prey's on what i call stupid-sales.

let me elaborate.



A Stupid sale, is a purchase made without proper research and comparative test drives. A stupid sale could be made as a result of a moron seeing a comercial, somone trying to buy a car for the image, or more commonly the price tag.

The mustang benefits from all of these aspects of 'stupid sales', they offer cheap cars because they are made cheaply using cheaper products and outdated suspensions, and they pull in a ton of sales that way.

The Mustang is seen as a status symbol for kids going into highschool who dont know any better. This is where the status symbol/poser aspect comes into play. The Mustang is no better than any of its main competitors but will outsell them because of stupid-sales coming from people chasing an icon that was really only worth it in the 60's. People that do their homework don't end u with mustangs unless they are on a budget, or they have a personal history with them. I quote motortrend after driving the 370z, "Do kids really still aspire to own Mustangs???"

Im not saying their.. strategy... isnt effective. But its almost like making lemonade on the street corner, and filling the jar up with water when it dips down to the half way point. Yes, you will make more sales, however people who are watching what your doing closely loose respect for you in the process and take their buisness elseware. Lucky for Ford no one who buys mustangs for anything but drag is watching that closely. Its time to grow up Ford, lets see a decent IRS system and a 6-speed.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

I dont think thats true at all. See Ford prey's on what i call stupid-sales.

let me elaborate.



A Stupid sale, is a purchase made without proper research and comparative test drives. A stupid sale could be made as a result of a moron seeing a comercial, somone trying to buy a car for the image, or more commonly the price tag.

The mustang benefits from all of these aspects of 'stupid sales', they offer cheap cars because they are made cheaply using cheaper products and outdated suspensions, and they pull in a ton of sales that way.

The Mustang is seen as a status symbol for kids going into highschool who dont know any better. This is where the status symbol/poser aspect comes into play. The Mustang is no better than any of its main competitors but will outsell them because of stupid-sales coming from people chasing an icon that was really only worth it in the 60's. People that do their homework don't end u with mustangs unless they are on a budget, or they have a personal history with them. I quote motortrend after driving the 370z, "Do kids really still aspire to own Mustangs???"

Im not saying their.. strategy... isnt effective. But its almost like making lemonade on the street corner, and filling the jar up with water when it dips down to the half way point. Yes, you will make more sales, however people who are watching what your doing closely loose respect for you in the process and take their buisness elseware. Lucky for Ford no one who buys mustangs for anything but drag is watching that closely. Its time to grow up Ford, lets see a decent IRS system and a 6-speed.

Call it "stupid-sales" or whatever you want, but at the end of the day, like you said, they still sell a boat-load of cars which, coincidentally, is what they are in business to do.

The fact of the matter is, kids I know (and I know a lot considering I have a 12 year-old in the house and his friends are around all the time) don't aspire to own Mustangs or Camaro's. They are star-struck with the exotics and other high-end sports cars. Since a real car is not an immediate reality for kids of that age, budget and price never into the equation. When they finally do reach the age where they can get their license, they still aspire to those same high-end cars, but the reality of economics comes into play and they are forced to "settle" for lesser cars like the Camaro or Mustang. Since the Mustang has historically been the more affordable of the two, sales tends to go the Mustangs way.

It's not like GM has not known this for decades, yet they still continue to try and out-do Mustang sales by offering what is, by all research, a better or more refined car, but at the expense of price. In the end, it is the price comparison that hurts the Camaro sales, not the final product.

You and 100,000+ other GM/Camaro enthusiasts getting online and continually bashing the Mustang for it's perceived shortcomings is not going to change that reality. In the end, either GM has to figure out a way to offer the better car at the same price point as its competition or they will always play second-fiddle to the Mustang in terms of overall sales. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you will agree, the general public is not an truly informed bunch. Few have any desire to reserach anything and the majority just regurgitate what they have heard from somewhere else. That's true in politics and it's just as true in the world of car buying.

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by truth411

Um maybe you have not noticed the price of the 2010 mustang compared to the camaro. The Base V6 mustang is ONLY $655 cheaper than the Base camaro when includeing destonation charges. For $655 you get 94 more Hp, Better fuel economy, Better everyday ride (IRS) believe it or not american roads are not butter smooth, And far better handling car. The V6 Camaro is superior than the after thought Mustang in every feasible way. It is basicaly a cheaper G-37 coupe. It is the base car that keeps production going, not the V8s. The camaro always had the better performing V8 cars, at one point in time I think chevy were selling the same amount of V8s as V6s in the 4-th gen camaros. The mustang has been around because of the base car sellin like 10 to 1 compared to the GT. Now that GM learned their lesson and made the Base car a truly execptionaly car within $655 of the joke V6 Mustang we shall see what happens. When those new powertrain comes out for the mustang expect a price and weight increase. Right now the mustang is about 300lbs lighter, than the camaro expect that to narrow abit. Wow it seem that some mustang loyalist are living on another planet and are inventing an artifical reality.

So I'm a Mustang loyalist because I drive a Mustang and acknowledged Ford's sales? Unless there's a 2006 Camaro or Challenger that I completely missed out on, that's a pretty big assumption to make.

I never said that GM hadn't taken a step in the right direction, however even if the car is only 600 bucks more expensive than the Mustang, it's still more expensive. I stand by my statement that the average car buyer won't really understand the difference in quality by looking at the window sticker because it's true. You're correct in saying it's the base model that makes the sales. My suggestion was that GM should offer a version of the V6 Camaro that is stripped down more than the current one (no IRS perhaps, or something along those lines) to get the entry cost below that of the Mustang. If GM could make a car in which the bare bones version is cheaper and better equipped, they'd have a much better shot at taking the crown from Ford.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Call it "stupid-sales" or whatever you want, but at the end of the day, like you said, they still sell a boat-load of cars which, coincidentally, is what they are in business to do.

The fact of the matter is, kids I know (and I know a lot considering I have a 12 year-old in the house and his friends are around all the time) don't aspire to own Mustangs or Camaro's. They are star-struck with the exotics and other high-end sports cars. Since a real car is not an immediate reality for kids of that age, budget and price never into the equation. When they finally do reach the age where they can get their license, they still aspire to those same high-end cars, but the reality of economics comes into play and they are forced to "settle" for lesser cars like the Camaro or Mustang. Since the Mustang has historically been the more affordable of the two, sales tends to go the Mustangs way.

It's not like GM has not known this for decades, yet they still continue to try and out-do Mustang sales by offering what is, by all research, a better or more refined car, but at the expense of price. In the end, it is the price comparison that hurts the Camaro sales, not the final product.

You and 100,000+ other GM/Camaro enthusiasts getting online and continually bashing the Mustang for it's perceived shortcomings is not going to change that reality. In the end, either GM has to figure out a way to offer the better car at the same price point as its competition or they will always play second-fiddle to the Mustang in terms of overall sales. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you will agree, the general public is not an truly informed bunch. Few have any desire to reserach anything and the majority just regurgitate what they have heard from somewhere else. That's true in politics and it's just as true in the world of car buying.

IRS IS a much more comfortable ride than solid axels....it would be nice if gm and chrysler would use that in its commercials...but we all know gm and chryslers marketing is amazing................for me to poop on

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

IRS IS a much more comfortable ride than solid axels....it would be nice if gm and chrysler would use that in its commercials...but we all know gm and chryslers marketing is amazing................for me to poop on

I agree. My '06 GTO rode better than my '07 GT500, but let's face it, when it comes to the V8 pony/musclecars, what percentage of the people in the market to buy one put "ride quality" at the top of their list of reasons to choose one over the other? Some might say they do, but those of us who have been around the hobby for any amount of time and are willing to be honest with themselves know that it's not that there is not that much of a difference between the two to change too many people minds.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Call it "stupid-sales" or whatever you want, but at the end of the day, like you said, they still sell a boat-load of cars which, coincidentally, is what they are in business to do.

The fact of the matter is, kids I know (and I know a lot considering I have a 12 year-old in the house and his friends are around all the time) don't aspire to own Mustangs or Camaro's. They are star-struck with the exotics and other high-end sports cars. Since a real car is not an immediate reality for kids of that age, budget and price never into the equation. When they finally do reach the age where they can get their license, they still aspire to those same high-end cars, but the reality of economics comes into play and they are forced to "settle" for lesser cars like the Camaro or Mustang. Since the Mustang has historically been the more affordable of the two, sales tends to go the Mustangs way.

It's not like GM has not known this for decades, yet they still continue to try and out-do Mustang sales by offering what is, by all research, a better or more refined car, but at the expense of price. In the end, it is the price comparison that hurts the Camaro sales, not the final product.

You and 100,000+ other GM/Camaro enthusiasts getting online and continually bashing the Mustang for it's perceived shortcomings is not going to change that reality. In the end, either GM has to figure out a way to offer the better car at the same price point as its competition or they will always play second-fiddle to the Mustang in terms of overall sales. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you will agree, the general public is not an truly informed bunch. Few have any desire to reserach anything and the majority just regurgitate what they have heard from somewhere else. That's true in politics and it's just as true in the world of car buying.

I agree with everything except for the exotic car comment.... As much as one may enjoy looking at or worshipping an Exotic car like a Ferrari, it never becomes realistic enough to consider owning unless that child is spoiled shitless.

The old mustangs are part of our society, they are as American as baseball or apple pie. Same with all the Muscle cars, however for whatever reason history has choose to remember the Mustang most vividly in society. This alone results in a 'active positive engagement' where kids who have an undeveloped sense of who they are tend to gravitate towards things that they feel people deem positive.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

I agree with everything except for the exotic car comment.... As much as one may enjoy looking at or worshipping an Exotic car like a Ferrari, it never becomes realistic enough to consider owning unless that child is spoiled shitless.

Actually, that is exactly the same sentiment I shared in my post. Not sure why you would disagree with me.

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

The old mustangs are part of our society, they are as American as baseball or apple pie. Same with all the Muscle cars, however for whatever reason history has choose to remember the Mustang most vividly in society. This alone results in a 'active positive engagement' where kids who have an undeveloped sense of who they are tend to gravitate towards things that they feel people deem positive.

So let me get this straight, the only people who buy Mustangs are those that have no sense of self-awareness, otherwise they would never choose to buy one?

I see what you are trying to say, but the fact of the matter is, as humans, it’s actually emotions that drive behavior, and rationalization only kicks in to explain or justify our decisions. In fact, according to a 2004 report generated by the Gallup Organization, decision-making is believed to be 30% rational and 70% emotional.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Actually, that is exactly the same sentiment I shared in my post. Not sure why you would disagree with me.

So let me get this straight, the only people who buy Mustangs are those that have no sense of self-awareness, otherwise they would never choose to buy one?

I see what you are trying to say, but the fact of the matter is, as humans, it’s actually emotions that drive behavior, and rationalization only kicks in to explain our justify decisions. In fact, according to a 2004 report generated by the Gallup Organization, decision-making is believed to be 30% rational and 70% emotional.

I guess what i was trying to say is that kids can still gow up aspiring to own Mustangs or whatever they are into despite the fact that they may really love some far out car.

I love the F430, but i ASPIRE to own a Z06

[Rekt]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

just check out the gt500 subtract 100hp and you have your new 5.0 gt......yea slow

Nice math you got there.

[drivingincamaro]

ok i wet back to the mustang build and price and now im doing a fully loaded v6

The total price comes out to.... 33,670 I also added the glass roof, without the glass roof it would be around 30k-31k

[truth411]

Originally Posted by nester7929

So I'm a Mustang loyalist because I drive a Mustang and acknowledged Ford's sales? Unless there's a 2006 Camaro or Challenger that I completely missed out on, that's a pretty big assumption to make.

I never said that GM hadn't taken a step in the right direction, however even if the car is only 600 bucks more expensive than the Mustang, it's still more expensive. I stand by my statement that the average car buyer won't really understand the difference in quality by looking at the window sticker because it's true. You're correct in saying it's the base model that makes the sales. My suggestion was that GM should offer a version of the V6 Camaro that is stripped down more than the current one (no IRS perhaps, or something along those lines) to get the entry cost below that of the Mustang. If GM could make a car in which the bare bones version is cheaper and better equipped, they'd have a much better shot at taking the crown from Ford.

No need to change anything, when the mustangs new powertrains come, expect a price increase with it. Then we shall see who's cheaper.

[bigjohns97]

Originally Posted by truth411

Um maybe you have not noticed the price of the 2010 mustang compared to the camaro. The Base V6 mustang is ONLY $655 cheaper than the Base camaro when includeing destonation charges. For $655 you get 94 more Hp, Better fuel economy, Better everyday ride (IRS) believe it or not american roads are not butter smooth, And far better handling car. The V6 Camaro is superior than the after thought Mustang in every feasible way. It is basicaly a cheaper G-37 coupe. It is the base car that keeps production going, not the V8s. The camaro always had the better performing V8 cars, at one point in time I think chevy were selling the same amount of V8s as V6s in the 4-th gen camaros. The mustang has been around because of the base car sellin like 10 to 1 compared to the GT. Now that GM learned their lesson and made the Base car a truly execptionaly car within $655 of the joke V6 Mustang we shall see what happens. When those new powertrain comes out for the mustang expect a price and weight increase. Right now the mustang is about 300lbs lighter, than the camaro expect that to narrow abit. Wow it seem that some mustang loyalist are living on another planet and are inventing an artifical reality.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...uction+figures

Wishful thinking on your part if you ask me, people buying the base model aren't going to care about the IRS or the high hp v6 they are going to care about looks and price.

As far as your last sentance i think you should take a hard look in the mirror.