Big wheels keep on turnin' - Page 2

UsedTaHaveA68 · 02-26-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Them 19's on the Corvette have way more mass than the 21's on the camaro. But yes too big is bad, too little isn't good either.

How do you know this? I'm not trying to be smart, I just find it hard to believe that a 21" cast wheel is lighter than a 19" forged.

The 19 inch wheel has a circumference of 59.7". Multiply that by its width (10" I think?) and you get a surface area of 597 for the hoop.

The 21 inch wheel has a circumference of 66". Multiply that by its width (9.5" I think for the back) and you get a surface area of 627.

Take into account that there's less spoke material required to make the 19" than the 21" and the fact that they Corvette wheels are forged (lighter), and I find it hard to believe the 19's have "way more mass" than the 21's.

Just my .02

But back to the thread topic, cars these days are being made with larger wheel wells, so require larger wheels to fill them up. This somewhat hides the proportionality imbalance of a 22" wheel to a relatively small 2-door car, which I think is a shame. The 18's on the GS concept don't really fill the wells, so I'm thinking some lightweight forged 19's should work just fine.

beowulf80 · 02-26-2009, 01:24 PM

^^^
Good start here. However, mass is based on volume, not surface area. So to properly compare them, we'd have to know how thick the metal is on both wheels.

For forge vs. cast: Forged is typically stronger than cast, but spoke design should play a role here too. For two identically shaped parts, with the same thicknesses; the process which made them should have almost no effect on the final mass, unless the forge comression significantly altered the steel's density. What you can do by forging a part is generally make it thinner. How much depends on the geometry and who engineered it.

Silver Streak · 02-26-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

How do you know this? I'm not trying to be smart, I just find it hard to believe that a 21" cast wheel is lighter than a 19" forged.

The 19 inch wheel has a circumference of 59.7". Multiply that by its width (10" I think?) and you get a surface area of 597 for the hoop.

The 21 inch wheel has a circumference of 66". Multiply that by its width (9.5" I think for the back) and you get a surface area of 627.

Take into account that there's less spoke material required to make the 19" than the 21" and the fact that they Corvette wheels are forged (lighter), and I find it hard to believe the 19's have "way more mass" than the 21's.

Just my .02

But back to the thread topic, cars these days are being made with larger wheel wells, so require larger wheels to fill them up. This somewhat hides the proportionality imbalance of a 22" wheel to a relatively small 2-door car, which I think is a shame. The 18's on the GS concept don't really fill the wells, so I'm thinking some lightweight forged 19's should work just fine.

Nice and I would not argue with that. I had in my head the Z06 wheels which are 2 inches wider. Whenever I think vette that is what I picture (my bad). Also "way more" was exagurated. Thanks for the breakdown! I still don't understand why the feel to get larger wheel to fill wheel well. Whatever happen to the profile of the tire. The 20's are a pretty descent profile, but the 19's or even 18's with a little larger profile still would fill the wheel wells IMO. I agree the stock 18's doesn't work very well, but I a sure there would be a better package of tire and wheel in the 18 in category that would look just fine. The koni challenge camaro has 18's on it, and I think it looks good, and you could go with a larger profile tire if you want wells filled and I think that setup might just look pretty damn good! Just a thought!

Zabo · 02-26-2009, 01:36 PM

I believe the trend toward larger wheels is proportional to the use of less rubber on the tires, and with smaller tires comes a smoother ride. 18-20 inch wheels on cars such as the Camaro and Charger brings this need toward the front. To have balloon tires would actually hurt the ride quality and possibly lateral grip as well. So shrink the tires and enlarge the rims..

Problem solved.

Silver Streak · 02-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabo

I believe the trend toward larger wheels is proportional to the use of less rubber on the tires, and with smaller tires comes a smoother ride. 18-20 inch wheels on cars such as the Camaro and Charger brings this need toward the front. To have balloon tires would actually hurt the ride quality and possibly lateral grip as well. So shrink the tires and enlarge the rims..

[COLOR="black"]Problem solved[/COLOR].

Problem not solved lol. I think that we are far away from ballooning the tires. And that small profile will hinder your launch. More profile will give you better launch. So again, it depends on what you are looking for. Yes a small profile is better for lateral grip, but not everyone is gonna be autocrossing, most people probably will be straight lining it. Regardless of what you are doing, there are different setups for different scenarios.

shank0668 · 02-26-2009, 05:57 PM

? 20's yes no?

*CamaroSpike23* · 02-26-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shank0668

? 20's yes no?

I'll allow it

UsedTaHaveA68 · 02-27-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beowulf80

^^^
Good start here. However, mass is based on volume, not surface area. So to properly compare them, we'd have to know how thick the metal is on both wheels.

For forge vs. cast: Forged is typically stronger than cast, but spoke design should play a role here too. For two identically shaped parts, with the same thicknesses; the process which made them should have almost no effect on the final mass, unless the forge comression significantly altered the steel's density. What you can do by forging a part is generally make it thinner. How much depends on the geometry and who engineered it.

I understand it's based on volume, not surface area, but short of dropping both wheels in a tub of water and measuring the amount of water displaced, I figured that would be a simple example of how the 20" wheel's circumference leads to more mass by showing that the area is greater, which, in theory, would mean the volume is also greater. Nice catch though!

ClownGames08 · 09-29-2009, 09:20 PM

My new Ride just arrived home from the lab

zebra · 09-29-2009, 09:30 PM

sometimes, you just have to have a bigger wheel to clear the brakes. yeah, they managed to squeeze 18s on the GS concept, but that's the smallest you can go. (for the 15"-16" fans) i do think that much bigger than 21" is just too much, though, but plenty of people believe otherwise, so that's why big wheels keep selling. my SS is gonna have a nice set of light-weight 19s & tires with a sidewall you can actually see.

MrIcky · 09-29-2009, 11:00 PM

So much of this all just depends. Someone mentioned 22's on a hummer- I don't think that looks good because it takes away from the abilities of a hummer.

I'm on a Dodge Truck forum alot and the 20inch vs 17inch is brought up alot. Alot of the guys with 20s have gone to 17s for offroading or towing- or they've gone the other route to 22s for street looks. I guess either can be OK on a truck, but on a vehicle truly designed for off road 22s look silly.

I'd rather have 19's than 21s on a Camaro personally and lower the car an inch.

02-26-2009, 05:57 PM	#20
shank0668 Drives: '14 LML/'06 LJ/'76 Trans Am Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,438 View My Garage	? 20's yes no? Attached Images

09-29-2009, 09:20 PM	#23
ClownGames08 Drives: 69 z28/ 69 572/ 2010 BBEE LPE Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: All 3 in Garage Posts: 20	22" Wheels on My LPE 650hp Camaro My new Ride just arrived home from the lab Attached Images

09-29-2009, 09:30 PM	#24
zebra just can't seem to leave Drives: your mom wild!! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: cold & windy Posts: 10,625 View My Garage	sometimes, you just have to have a bigger wheel to clear the brakes. yeah, they managed to squeeze 18s on the GS concept, but that's the smallest you can go. (for the 15"-16" fans) i do think that much bigger than 21" is just too much, though, but plenty of people believe otherwise, so that's why big wheels keep selling. my SS is gonna have a nice set of light-weight 19s & tires with a sidewall you can actually see. __________________ Eve ('00 FRC): hot-air intake Rowan ('09 H3): 5spd mom-mobile Penny ('99 Sierra): 5.3 / HD 5spd... gone but not forgotten Samson ('18 HD): compounded 408

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02-26-2009, 01:24 PM	#16
beowulf80 Drives: 2010 2SS / RS MT, IBM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Yorkville IL Posts: 181 View My Garage	^^^ Good start here. However, mass is based on volume, not surface area. So to properly compare them, we'd have to know how thick the metal is on both wheels. For forge vs. cast: Forged is typically stronger than cast, but spoke design should play a role here too. For two identically shaped parts, with the same thicknesses; the process which made them should have almost no effect on the final mass, unless the forge comression significantly altered the steel's density. What you can do by forging a part is generally make it thinner. How much depends on the geometry and who engineered it.

02-26-2009, 01:36 PM	#18
Zabo Gunning for Sixth Drives: '03 ZR2 Blazer Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Woodhaven, Michigan Posts: 9,358 View My Garage	I believe the trend toward larger wheels is proportional to the use of less rubber on the tires, and with smaller tires comes a smoother ride. 18-20 inch wheels on cars such as the Camaro and Charger brings this need toward the front. To have balloon tires would actually hurt the ride quality and possibly lateral grip as well. So shrink the tires and enlarge the rims.. Problem solved.

09-29-2009, 11:00 PM	#25
MrIcky Drives: Dodge Ram Megacab & Cobalt SS Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Boise Posts: 1,536	So much of this all just depends. Someone mentioned 22's on a hummer- I don't think that looks good because it takes away from the abilities of a hummer. I'm on a Dodge Truck forum alot and the 20inch vs 17inch is brought up alot. Alot of the guys with 20s have gone to 17s for offroading or towing- or they've gone the other route to 22s for street looks. I guess either can be OK on a truck, but on a vehicle truly designed for off road 22s look silly. I'd rather have 19's than 21s on a Camaro personally and lower the car an inch.