370Z vs Cayman S vs 911 vs 135i vs S2000

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

But it would shock me to not find 'body roll' written in the test article somewhere.

Me too...However, I expect it to be prefaced by the word "minimal".

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

Why would they have Dale Jr. test drive a car that didn't accurately represent an accumulation of their efforts? Think about it, he's only gonna be there a hand full of times tops... So you mind as well give him a car that might have X wrong with it, which he can help with instead of a car with X, Y and Z wrong with it where there is too much for him to focus his efforts.

On the flip side, why would they have a race driver come in during testing and not change things based on his comments? That testing was done in Australia, and it appeared to be summer time, therefore our winter which happens to coincide with his off season. Which means it was roughly a year ago, it could have been 2 years ago for all we know. Plenty of time to do fine tuning of things like suspension.

Plus, while the G8 and Camaro share a platform, there are differences that add up. A lower, wider, and lighter Camaro will be less prone to body roll than a G8 with identical suspension. And I don't know if it will have an identical setup or not (the Camaro is more likely to receive compensation for things like body roll, but never any guarantees).

All that said, I think the amount of body roll in the Camaro will be best described as 'some' or 'moderate' but I doubt we will hear 'lots' or 'excessive' used.

ps: I think this is the most that I have used the term 'body roll' in my life

[Design1stCode2nd]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

What would your DD be?

Bought a 08 STI a couple months ago during their $8k off MSRP and 0% financing for 63 months (lightly modified now). I came to the realization that I wasn’t going to find one car that would do everything I needed it to do (haul two kids and stuff and be good in all kinds of weather) and be everything I wanted it to be (look great, be fast, handle well). So this was a compromise and when it’s paid off I can get what I want (two seater, convertible, 500hp Camaro convertible or whatever). I’m bummed that I have to wait longer but it was the right choice for my family.



I think the Camaro will handle quite well. It will probably have some body roll and understeer built in from the factory. Remember this is a mass market car and you can’t have 18 yr olds dying left and right from snap oversteering into a tree.

Add some sways, an alignment and maybe some springs and you can easily fix that for a modest price.

I think of it this way:

Lotus Exige is a scalpel
370z is a carving knife
Camaro is a big ass sharp Bowie knife

Again these two don’t really compete except in the general performance for the price category.

It’s the same reason that I don’t think the STI/Evo compete with the Camaro or 370z either.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Me too...However, I expect it to be prefaced by the word "minimal".

Originally Posted by DGthe3

On the flip side, why would they have a race driver come in during testing and not change things based on his comments? That testing was done in Australia, and it appeared to be summer time, therefore our winter which happens to coincide with his off season. Which means it was roughly a year ago, it could have been 2 years ago for all we know. Plenty of time to do fine tuning of things like suspension.

Plus, while the G8 and Camaro share a platform, there are differences that add up. A lower, wider, and lighter Camaro will be less prone to body roll than a G8 with identical suspension. And I don't know if it will have an identical setup or not (the Camaro is more likely to receive compensation for things like body roll, but never any guarantees).

All that said, I think the amount of body roll in the Camaro will be best described as 'some' or 'moderate' but I doubt we will hear 'lots' or 'excessive' used.

ps: I think this is the most that I have used the term 'body roll' in my life

A. I agree that it will have less body roll than the GXP regardless...


B. This car has been YEARS in the making. I agree that there has been adequate time given to properly address all issues, but i still don't know that why they wouldn't have made it the best they could BEFORE putting through its final test...

Keep in mind that the Dale Jr. thing came months after we saw this car on the Nurburgring. Now why would you pay to ship a car to Germany to test its track ability if it wasn't nearly complete? (less body roll, tighter suspension etc. all would result in a faster lap time)

C. Yes... Body Roll... Body Roll... Body Roll...

Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd

Bought a 08 STI a couple months ago during their $8k off MSRP and 0% financing for 63 months (lightly modified now). I came to the realization that I wasn’t going to find one car that would do everything I needed it to do (haul two kids and stuff and be good in all kinds of weather) and be everything I wanted it to be (look great, be fast, handle well). So this was a compromise and when it’s paid off I can get what I want (two seater, convertible, 500hp Camaro convertible or whatever). I’m bummed that I have to wait longer but it was the right choice for my family.



I think the Camaro will handle quite well. It will probably have some body roll and understeer built in from the factory. Remember this is a mass market car and you can’t have 18 yr olds dying left and right from snap oversteering into a tree.

Add some sways, an alignment and maybe some springs and you can easily fix that for a modest price.

I think of it this way:

Lotus Exige is a scalpel
370z is a carving knife
Camaro is a big ass sharp Bowie knife

Again these two don’t really compete except in the general performance for the price category.

It’s the same reason that I don’t think the STI/Evo compete with the Camaro or 370z either.

First off i dont think the 370z is any slower than the STI. I dont know what you've done to the car but stock for stock its gonna be faster. (lighter... more power)

Cant argue with your Logic. I have a personal distaste for cars like the Evo and STI, mostly because i could have designed a better looking car durring an Acid Trip.

They really are all different cars. you put them on a track together and it really depends what track/how many straights etc. before you can declare a winner.

But i will say this... ive driven STI's, EVO's and Lotus's... and Id take a Z any day of the week. The Z has all the feel and performance, but without the garbage interior quality. Its more of a sports car less of a boy racer.

[Design1stCode2nd]

Stock for stock the 370z and STI are pretty much the same speed wise, agreed. The VQ is pretty much tapped out by Nissan already unless you want to go FI. Whereas you can make another 30-40hp, 50lb tq on an STi or Evo with a $500 tune or $650 accessport. Then you can just go up from there with DP, CAI, Protune etc. Not that I will since this is my family car.
Interior quality on the 350z was poor, the 370z is much improved and looks good.

Keep in mind the platform that the Z is on is the same one that an FX is on too, not like it was made just for this purpose.

STI's and Evo's are not sports cars IMO. Corvette, Elise, Cayman, (even the Miata and RX8) etc those are sports cars as they are purpose built on platforms exclusively for that intent.

As to boy racer? You do know what an 08 STI looks like right, looks like an average hatchback.



Let see I had 6 computers, 2 monitors, a printer and a 5 year old in the car this past weekend, try that with a Z and then do it in the snow.

Again I love the 370z, beautiful car and defintely one I will test when my STI is paid off and I'm looking for a second car but for me its a toy like any other 2 seat car.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd

Stock for stock the 370z and STI are pretty much the same speed wise, agreed. The VQ is pretty much tapped out by Nissan already unless you want to go FI. Whereas you can make another 30-40hp, 50lb tq on an STi or Evo with a $500 tune or $650 accessport. Then you can just go up from there with DP, CAI, Protune etc. Not that I will since this is my family car.
Interior quality on the 350z was poor, the 370z is much improved and looks good.

Keep in mind the platform that the Z is on is the same one that an FX is on too, not like it was made just for this purpose.

STI's and Evo's are not sports cars IMO. Corvette, Elise, Cayman, (even the Miata and RX8) etc those are sports cars as they are purpose built on platforms exclusively for that intent.

As to boy racer? You do know what an 08 STI looks like right, looks like an average hatchback.



Let see I had 6 computers, 2 monitors, a printer and a 5 year old in the car this past weekend, try that with a Z and then do it in the snow.

Again I love the 370z, beautiful car and defintely one I will test when my STI is paid off and I'm looking for a second car but for me its a toy like any other 2 seat car.

Oh ya the new one looks boring, no doubt about that. However people who love the STI brand hate the new one, they are into the soul of the 'Original' or some garbage like that.





And this is as Boy Racer as they come.



Like i said before, because of your situation i cant argue with your logic. If you need the 4 doors without going over 40k the STI is as good as it gets (pre G8-GXP)

But id take the Z all day long, better interior, better performance.

[Muscle Master]

That STI is a beauty

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

A. I agree that it will have less body roll than the GXP regardless...


B. This car has been YEARS in the making. I agree that there has been adequate time given to properly address all issues, but i still don't know that why they wouldn't have made it the best they could BEFORE putting through its final test...

Keep in mind that the Dale Jr. thing came months after we saw this car on the Nurburgring. Now why would you pay to ship a car to Germany to test its track ability if it wasn't nearly complete? (less body roll, tighter suspension etc. all would result in a faster lap time)

C. Yes... Body Roll... Body Roll... Body Roll...

The order in which we see things is not necessarily the order in which they occurred . . .

[Georgie]

you get easy gains w/ built factory turbo. just look at the cobalt... wow!

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The order in which we see things is not necessarily the order in which they occurred . . .

True. But there is nothing that suggests it was given to us 'out of order'

[Mr. Wyndham]

Many manufacturers use the ring to 'learn about their cars'...how certain changes will effect its manners, etc....Just because someone takes their car to the ring doesn't mean that's "it" as far as suspension tuning.....

This is the theory I've held on to for a while now, it explains why the Camaro's ring time wasn't as good as we thought it would be, despite being unofficial.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Many manufacturers use the ring to 'learn about their cars'...how certain changes will effect its manners, etc....Just because someone takes their car to the ring doesn't mean that's "it" as far as suspension tuning.....

This is the theory I've held on to for a while now, it explains why the Camaro's ring time wasn't as good as we thought it would be, despite being unofficial.

If that were true im sure we would have gotten a 'new and improved' ring time for the Camaro.

If GM were as serious as they probably should be with this Camaro (and judging by how they handled the CTS-V and ZR1.. they are) they should go out a make the best lap time they could, the best specs they could, and beat all of the competition that we as Camaro5 members know/believe they can beat, and make the whole thing extremely public. The Ads for the Genesis have been blowing people away, now its time for GM to come out and blow people away with what the Camaro can do.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Meh. The Nurburgring isn't important to anyone but the most hardcore enthusiasts; when you're strapped for cash -- why go back? And as nice as the Hyundai commercials are...I can't help but think they're all bark and no bite -- time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath. While the Camaro has a substantial part in this years marketing campaign for GM, the car will speak for itself, as unsatisfying as that is for some of us.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Meh. The Nurburgring isn't important to anyone but the most hardcore enthusiasts; when you're strapped for cash -- why go back? And as nice as the Hyundai commercials are...I can't help but think they're all bark and no bite -- time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath. While the Camaro has a substantial part in this years marketing campaign for GM, the car will speak for itself, as unsatisfying as that is for some of us.

I agree, but even so.. If the Camaro had been capable of some amazing lap time im sure we all would have heard about it.

Just for the record, the 911 which the 370z kept pace with set a 7:59 nurburgring lap time.