370Z vs Cayman S vs 911 vs 135i vs S2000

[Tactical Z]

He said that straight "A. I dont believe you"

Win

[Mr. Wyndham]

**Me chuckling...A LOT...at the underestimations being lodged against the Camaro**

I'm getting impatient for reviews and comparisons......

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

**Me chuckling...A LOT...at the underestimations being lodged against the Camaro**

I'm getting impatient for reviews and comparisons......

Im sorry, i dont mean to underestimate the camaro. All of the Cars in this review are more $$ and have a significant weight advantage over the Camaro. I dont doubt that camaro WILL hold its own on the track, but until i see it translate into real world performances im going to be skeptical that the 3800lb+ camaro can hang with these cars which average less than 3250lbs

[Mr. Wyndham]

Sure enough. And that's why I said I'm getting impatient. This car WILL hold it's own (if it doesn't outright win)...but there's no "acceptable proof" I can quote to back that statement up. :(

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Sure enough. And that's why I said I'm getting impatient. This car WILL hold it's own (if it doesn't outright win)...but there's no "acceptable proof" I can quote to back that statement up. :(

Hopefully the tests come out soon... Im still at a loss for any Great Idea as to why GM would be holding back the official SS reviews...

It cant be because of fit and finish... just look at the V6 test cars that were submited for review... I remember one reviewer noting how his car had both a manual gearbox AND paddle shifters

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

A. I dont believe you. The differences are subtle to the point that you could mistake them, and it doesnt make sense for them to use 3 brand new cars and 1 old one.

B. Funny. Did the Cayman beat the 911 because it handles better?

No. Ive got the 911 in My driveway and ive driven many Cayman's. The cayman is watered down compared to the 911. The Reason the Cayman won is because it had such a large lead, thanks to the Honda/BMW holding back the 911/370z, allowing the Cayman to surge ahead past the group.


once the Z/911 got out from behind the two captain-slow's, they caught up to the cayman. Something that WOULDNT have happened had the cayman been a more capable car. By the end of the race the Z and 911 were fighting with each other to pass up the Cayman... Given more time the outcome would have been different.


C. The problems that the Camaro will have are weight and body roll. Some serious sway bars and suspension work should do the trick but it will never be as track capable as these cars after similar work.

A.http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...&id=1136250621 if you have facebook that should be proof enough, thats the cayman on a track day. if you own the car its easy to tell the difference. like some people can tell the difference between a regular C6 and a current Z06 i can tell the difference between two different caymans.

B. i never said the cayman was faster on the straights i said it handled better. it was clearly obvious that it is the slower straight line car. however the new cayman with about 20-30 more hp and ALOT more torque ( considering it just switched to direct injection) is alot closer to beating a 911 in a straight line. you should agree that the cayman handles better than the 911 (especially since it has a limited slip differential now).

C. how did the CTS-V beat all of its competitors being as over weight as it is? i know GM will work its magic once again

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

A.http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...&id=1136250621 if you have facebook that should be proof enough, thats the cayman on a track day. if you own the car its easy to tell the difference. like some people can tell the difference between a regular C6 and a current Z06 i can tell the difference between two different caymans.

B. i never said the cayman was faster on the straights i said it handled better. it was clearly obvious that it is the slower straight line car. however the new cayman with about 20-30 more hp and ALOT more torque ( considering it just switched to direct injection) is alot closer to beating a 911 in a straight line. you should agree that the cayman handles better than the 911 (especially since it has a limited slip differential now).

C. how did the CTS-V beat all of its competitors being as over weight as it is? i know GM will work its magic once again

A. I believe that you have the car, i dont believe that they would have used an older model. Can you point out the specific differences? (as you can tell, im not a big cayman person so i dont know the body all that well)

B. i dont think the cayman has any advantage on a track. My expirience with the Cayman (though not on a track) gave me no reason to say it was better handling than a 911. The 911 pulls higher G's and has more power coming out of Corners. It also consistantly (even in THIS test) pulls out better lap times than the Cayman. As nice as the Cayman is, its not the best track car of that group. Day to day handling its comprable to the 911.

Like i said before, if the Cayman had been the most capable car it would have won by a LANDSLIDE, only increasing its lead after pulling out infront of the bmw/honda. But the Nissan and 911 caught up because they are more capable track cars. It was only a matter of time before it was passed.

C. The CTS-V has what, 550 hp? and what car are you reffering to it having beaten, the M5 ?

The M5 has significantly less power than the CTS-V... But unlike the Camaro vs. 370z comparison, where the Camaro has more power.. the M5 isnt the best cornering car, where as the Z is AMONG the best Cornering cars

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

A. I believe that you have the car, i dont believe that they would have used an older model. Can you point out the specific differences? (as you can tell, im not a big cayman person so i dont know the body all that well)

B. i dont think the cayman has any advantage on a track. My expirience with the Cayman (though not on a track) gave me no reason to say it was better handling than a 911. The 911 pulls higher G's and has more power coming out of Corners. It also consistantly (even in THIS test) pulls out better lap times than the Cayman. As nice as the Cayman is, its not the best track car of that group. Day to day handling its comprable to the 911.

Like i said before, if the Cayman had been the most capable car it would have won by a LANDSLIDE, only increasing its lead after pulling out infront of the bmw/honda. But the Nissan and 911 caught up because they are more capable track cars. It was only a matter of time before it was passed.

C. The CTS-V has what, 550 hp? and what car are you reffering to it having beaten, the M5 ?

The M5 has significantly less power than the CTS-V... But unlike the Camaro vs. 370z comparison, where the Camaro has more power.. the M5 isnt the best cornering car, where as the Z is AMONG the best Cornering cars

A. the difference between the new and old cayman is very similar to the difference between the new and old 911. the easiest way to tell is the new strip of LED lights found where the fog lights are on the cayman on the video.
B. the advantage the 911 has is its HP advantage. the cayman is naturally better due to all the weight being focused on the center of the car, not the rear. for everyday driving it is a difference that is negligible, however once on the track the balance of the cayman allows it to take turns quicker than the 911. if the cayman were given the same HP as the 911, it would dominate it around the track but porsche has to appease the 911 owners. this has been tested before though, some people have taken the 3.6 L (or is it 3.8?)engine from the 911 and placed it in the cayman. i cant comment on how much better it is than a base cayman S since i havent done the upgrade myself (i only have exhaust and intake done)
C. the horsepower difference between the M5 and CTS-V is 50 horsepower, the difference between the camaro and 370z is almost 100. the CTS-V beat ever single 4-door car around the 'ring i dont know which one is in second place behind it but it is certainly slower than the cadillac.

[ihc95]

That IS the old Cayman S. Look at the front bumper. I have a picture of the new Cayman right in front of me in a magazine and the foglight layout is different than the one in the new car.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I'm not a Porche guy by any means. All I know is that I don't like the looks of the Boxster. But--- this info/comparison may be of value for the discussion at hand:

This is a list of the recent Nurburgring track times set by cars up through about the middle of 2008:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

The Camaro's time (still 'unofficial'), was 8:20. The 350z's recorded time was 8:26.
The CTS-V pulled a 7.59, besting the likes of the '04 Porsche 997 Carrera S...and a few other extremely lighter-wieght cars.....don't know of what use that info might be - so...just sayin.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

A. the difference between the new and old cayman is very similar to the difference between the new and old 911. the easiest way to tell is the new strip of LED lights found where the fog lights are on the cayman on the video.
B. the advantage the 911 has is its HP advantage. the cayman is naturally better due to all the weight being focused on the center of the car, not the rear. for everyday driving it is a difference that is negligible, however once on the track the balance of the cayman allows it to take turns quicker than the 911. if the cayman were given the same HP as the 911, it would dominate it around the track but porsche has to appease the 911 owners. this has been tested before though, some people have taken the 3.6 L (or is it 3.8?)engine from the 911 and placed it in the cayman. i cant comment on how much better it is than a base cayman S since i havent done the upgrade myself (i only have exhaust and intake done)
C. the horsepower difference between the M5 and CTS-V is 50 horsepower, the difference between the camaro and 370z is almost 100. the CTS-V beat ever single 4-door car around the 'ring i dont know which one is in second place behind it but it is certainly slower than the cadillac.

A. That may be true, however it doesnt change the fact that the new Cayman S still records slower times than the 911... so ...

911>Cayman S.


And judging from the lap times, the 370z almost tied the best 911 lap time... sooo...

911>370z>CaymanS ?

B. Word.


C. I was actually referring to the 500lb/ft of Torque in the CTS-V vs. The 383lb/ft of torque in an M5. Quite a difference there, and Torque means a lot more when your racing 4000lb+ cars.


I LOVE the CTS-V. One of my favorite cars, and if i had 60k to blow on a car, it'd be a tough choice between this and a Vette... However it didnt win by some magic engineering. It won because it has a MONSTER engine, and it was Built by Americans. And i think americans can be summed up by Ricky Bobby. "I wanna go Fast!"

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

C. I was actually referring to the 500lb/ft of Torque in the CTS-V vs. The 383lb/ft of torque in an M5. Quite a difference there, and Torque means a lot more when your racing 4000lb+ cars.

And it doesn't matter when racing 3300-3800 lb cars?

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And it doesn't matter when racing 3300-3800 lb cars?

Torque is always a rellevant part of any race, but the Camaro will need all the torque advantage it can get to offset the massive weight dissadvantage.


Just look at the SRT chally, everyone writes it off because of the massive weight dissadvantage. It wont be able to compete with anyone.


But... the Weight difference between the chally/camaro is LESS than the Camaro and any of the cars in this comparison. Can you imagine what owners of those cars are saying about US...


What will be able to save the Camaro (because its NOT competeing against other 3800lb cars) is an Agile suspension and firm handling. If it can put together a Corvette like package it should be able to compete with lighter cars... Otherwise it will have similar speed (Z 0-60 in 4.8 Camaro 0-60 in 4.6) with less corning ability, resulting in a loss on any track that isnt drag...

[lil_chef]

i think all i was getting at was that the newer cayman with more horsepower and torque and the newly added limited slip differential would offer more of a competition than the one in the video.

all we have to go off of for the camaro's handling is the V6's G37 like handling. i am not sure how well the g37 handles but i do know that the V8 will handle better (from a performance standpoint)