Volt rated at 93 MPGe ... and 37 mpg ... and 60 mpg

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by motorhead

No matter how people try to work numbers in the volts favor it's not a good purchase.

A good purchase for who, exactly? Because that needs to be qualified before this conversation even has an *inkling* of validity.

Originally Posted by motorhead

I hate to tell you but electric is going up also and who knows what kind of upkeep this car will require.

I do! None more than a regular car. The battery is warranted to 8 years and 100,000 miles, and through testing and validation is shown to maintain something like 80% of its capacity after that time period. GM is also currently researching the potential of 'recycling' the batteries back to "almost new".

It's not nearly the voodoo some people seem to consider it.

And so is gas prices....at a great rate. Not only that, but prices are much more volatile.

Originally Posted by motorhead

and I did use the volt's the maximum rating by figuring it at full electric which for me and most other folks across the land would never be able to do with it's very limited range on electric only.

Actually...that'd be quite wrong. At least the last portion. Studies conducted at the beginning of the Volt program show that 78% or more of American's daily commute is no more than 40 miles. Since we all know that no car can satisfy 100% of consumers...I'd say this is a pretty good range of effectiveness.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

People also need to understand that the car was NOT.....

...NOT...

...designed to save you money.

It was designed to make a few different statements about electric cars, and about GM in general. It was also designed because there is a significant amount of people who are interested in buying this car. And honestly, $350 a month is not too much more than what most of us here are paying for Camaros (in some cases it's less!!)....so I'm not seeing why its so insane to buy a very well-equipped car if you've got the money.

If you're on a budget -- get a Cruze, that's who it was designed for. and 42 on the highway ain't too shabby.

Different markets, people. We can compare the Volt to a cheap econobox all day and call it 'insane'...but then we may as well compare the Camaro to the prius and call it a stupid choice, as well.

This is the kind of thinking that has helped to put us were we are to today. Your statement if correct makes no sense at all. I not saying this to attack you ,but as someone that's been in business for a very long time and can see when someone is being buffaloed. If this car wasn't designed to save people money then what good is it? That's how they are advertising it to the public. Unlike the corvette which does live up to it price by providing what it is advertised to do for a fare cost. The volt has one purpose to save fuel. It does that ,but not at an overall savings to the customer. Sorry but real people aren't going to buy into the idea of owning one as a status symbol which to me is all your talking about. If that's why they built then well, they really screwed up in my book.
That would be like saying" well we're coming out with a new corvette. It's going to look good but have a 50hp motor and cost $200,000." This is what we have in the volt right now. I'll tell you what, I'll let all you believers and suckers buy them for now and let you pay for the R&D that will end up producing a car that makes sense for those of us that really want a car to save us money and not just be a status symbol.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by motorhead

This is the kind of think that has helped to put us were we are to today.

Which would be....where?

The Volt proved that GM can build a technologically superior EV. It was never intended to be a high-volume seller in the beginning of its life (I believe the original estimate was 10,000 Volts in the first year of production...they've bumped that up due to demand...). But it was nonetheless developed as a torch-bearer for GM in the eco-friendly segment of vehicles. Much like Corvette is the be-all-end all in GM's performance lineup, GM cars will never get more fuel efficient than the Volt. It also answered the cries of the many who want to save fuel for their own reasons...and are willing to pay for it. People have responded...while taking into account its relatively high price tag, it's won awards and accolades some manufacturers DREAM of getting for a brand new released car.

I haven't seen a single commercial, ad, or public statement that pushing the vehicle as an economically viable choice. So I simply disagree with your assertion that that is how they're presenting the Volt to the public.

But maybe I should rephrase to better express the point I wanted to make: It was not designed to save the driver money in the short term over a small subcompact car like the Fiesta, or even the compact Cruze. But with its long list of standard equipment, serene level of ride-quality, and at a lease rate of $350/mo....maybe compare it to a well-equipped Malibu...or even the Impala. Like the one my parents just purchased for roughly $350/mo. Then it starts making $h!t-tons of sense.

I suspect you just don't like this car....I don't know why, but I'm sure I can respect your reasons. Still, that doesn't help me understand why you and others try at every turn to tear the car down. If it's not your cup of tea, fine -- I can get that, and I'm certainly not saying you HAVE to like it. But why spend all this time crapping on other people's parade?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

No, I don't expect that at all. The reason is because you don't need $20,000 worth of batteries to out perform the volt. All you need is a Ford fiesta. Which by the way has many very well thought out features for a lot less money and will cost you less to own.

Unless I'm missing something, the Fiesta can't drive very far on its battery.

[FenwickHockey65]

The whole point of the Volt is to act as a stepping stone between gasoline-powered vehicles and fully-electric vehicles. Battery technology just hasn't progressed far enough for full EVs to be practical (case in point, Nissan Leaf). It isn't being presented as a car that can save you thousands of dollars a year, it's being presented as a way to help decrease our dependence on gasoline. You have to start somewhere.

Furthermore, have any of you ever bought a brand-new piece of technology for cheap? A 32 inch TV costs $300 right now. A year ago, the same TV or similar would cost $500.

The real irony is that people constantly bash GM for never releasing ground-breaking or revolutionary products...and the year that they start production of what is undeniably a technological masterpiece...they get bashed for it. Typical.

GM just can't win one, can they?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM just can't win one, can they?

In most cases...Fbodfather nailed it as passion for the product/company and what they represent. Too much passion for something is a lot like too much alcohol...

But in other cases...not so much, sadly. :(

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I thought this was a cool idea until I started looking at the numbers. One would have to be insane to buy this car. A 2011 ford fiesta well equipped cost around $20,000 and gets around 39MPG. Even if one was to run the volt on total electric and get the $8,000 dollar tax credit to purchase it, it would still cost $8,500 more in 5 years and that's including the saving to run on total electric which I highly doubt most people will be able to do unless they live in a city. That's also not including the extra interest for a larger loan payment over that five years. This car just doesn't add up. Plus one can drive a fiesta anywhere without the need for a plug and get the great MPG all the time. I'm starting to really go the other way with this volt the more I read about it.

First let me say that I always find it funny the amount of Ford Pushing that goes on here.

I will follow that up with a... If a person was gonna buy a Volt... and the pricing or tech intimidated them.. Why would that person not buy the car the Volt is based on... the Chevy CRUZE ECO?? It is the same size and gets 42 MPG... over a Fiesta.. which is smaller than both.. and gets less fuel economy?

I'm a realist... and the Fiesta is UGLY to boot. The real alternative to the Volt is the Cruze.. simple as that, and I won'y hear anything different

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Which would be....where?

The Volt proved that GM can build a technologically superior EV. It was never intended to be a high-volume seller in the beginning of its life (I believe the original estimate was 10,000 Volts in the first year of production...they've bumped that up due to demand...). But it was nonetheless developed as a torch-bearer for GM in the eco-friendly segment of vehicles. Much like Corvette is the be-all-end all in GM's performance lineup, GM cars will never get more fuel efficient than the Volt. It also answered the cries of the many who want to save fuel for their own reasons...and are willing to pay for it. And people have responded...while taking into account its relatively high price tag, it's won awards and accolades some manufacturers DREAM of getting for a brand new released car.

I haven't seen a single commercial, ad, or public statement that pushing the vehicle as an economically viable choice. So I simply disagree with your assertion that that is how they're presenting the Volt to the public.

But maybe I should rephrase to better express the point I wanted to make...It was not designed to save the driver money in the short term over a small subcompact car like the Fiesta, or even the compact Cruze. But with its long list of standard equipment, serene level of ride-quality, and at a lease rate of $350/mo....maybe compare it to a well-equipped Malibu...or even the Impala. Like the one my parents just purchased for roughly $350/mo. Then it starts making $h!t-tons of sense.

I suspect you just don't like this car....I don't know why, but I'm sure I can respect your reasons. Still, that doesn't help me understand why you and others try at every turn to tear the car down. If it's not your cup of tea, fine -- I can get that. But why spend all this time crapping on other people's parade?

No, I really like the the car. I fully supported it in the beginning. I'm not just seeing the savings now that more info is coming out. I think it's a start ,but I also think it's a long way off. If someone wants this car and doesn't care that it really isn't saving them money then fine. For me to buy a car like this, it would have to save me money. That to me is what a car like this should be about. I really don't know how telling the truth and my opinion is crapping on others parade. I still can't understand why when someone doesn't agree with the norm on this site they get branded as being A-holes or something like that. If were not allowed to have opinions that don't always agree with mods then why isn't that in the rules. I believe it would be a very boring site if that were to happen.


Edit: I'm sorry I even put my two sense in. I really don't believe you guys try to understand what someone is trying say nor care to when it doesn't line up with what your thinking. After reading some of the replies above to my last post I really don't think any of you understand what I was trying to say. I only picked the ford because it was the first 35 to 39MPG car that I came across to compare to the volt. I could care less that it is a ford ,and I know the ford doesn't have batteries that was my point.

[superstockcam]

If I go in my garage and the only thing in it is an electric car....I will move it and hang myself from the opener.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by superstockcam

If I go in my garage and the only thing in it is an electric car....I will move it and hang myself from the opener.

Seriously, this car probably won't appeal to 90% of the people here. Nevertheless, there IS demand for the Volt, and that's a fact that nobody here can deny. Hell, a member at GMI already has his Volt built, it's just waiting to be shipped.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And just what constitutes a flop? Because by all measures, if you want to call the Volt a sales flop you'd have to also call the Corvette a sales flop. Last year they sold just 14k units, and the year before that, 27k.

A flop, imo, is when a new model car sells alot less than it was predicted to do (Pontiac Aztec, Chevy SSR, Chrysler Crossfire). And no, I would not call the Vette a flop. Chevy makes them in such a volume as to meet demand. You don't see Corvettes being slashed because they've sat on the lots for months, and you don't see the Gov't having to pay people to buy Corvettes.

Again I ask; if people really want these cars, why does the Gov't have to pay people to buy them?

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

A flop, imo, is when a new model car sells alot less than it was predicted to do (Pontiac Aztec, Chevy SSR, Chrysler Crossfire). And no, I would not call the Vette a flop. Chevy makes them in such a volume as to meet demand. You don't see Corvettes being slashed because they've sat on the lots for months, and you don't see the Gov't having to pay people to buy Corvettes.

Again I ask; if people really want these cars, why does the Gov't have to pay people to buy them?

An even better question is why do I have to pay so that someone else can buy a more fuel efficient vehicle? WTF, it is hard enough paying for gas for my truck at 10 mpgs

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

A flop, imo, is when a new model car sells alot less than it was predicted to do (Pontiac Aztec, Chevy SSR, Chrysler Crossfire). And no, I would not call the Vette a flop. Chevy makes them in such a volume as to meet demand. You don't see Corvettes being slashed because they've sat on the lots for months, and you don't see the Gov't having to pay people to buy Corvettes.

Again I ask; if people really want these cars, why does the Gov't have to pay people to buy them?

GM's increased the planned production volume of the Volt and has been putting $3000 on the hood Corvettes for quite some time. And the production volume for the Corvette has been slashed.

The government has not reason to encourage the sale of Corvettes. While they're among the most efficient sports cars out there, in the grand scheme of things they're not all that efficient.

The US government has to pay people to buy hybrids and electrics because they want to import less oil, but they don't have the will to increase gas taxes (political suicide) or drill for more (a short term solution). This is also why they created the CAFE fuel economy standards.

[el ess A]

I've yet to see any real convincing rhetoric here to say the Volt is all that and a bag of chips, other than typical fanboi talk. People talk about GM losing money on the Volt and Corvettes, etc....then why did they get bailed out if they want to continue losing money? Unless they've got the former Enron accounting firm employees adding up the books, how are they making a profit?

The government is subsidizing sales of electric/hybrids because the government thinks it knows best on where to put taxpayer money, and also they know that without it, not enough people are going to put more than a big toe in the water in buying the Volt.

But, as the tree huggers keep going, eventually they MAKE you own something you might not buy if given a choice. Like the very cheap incandescent light bulbs. Soon they'll be gone and you're forced to buy the way more expensive flourescent bulbs. Simply because of some political BS.

Being the government, they usually get it wrong. Catch 22 though, if the Volt flops, GM value goes down, and taxpayer investment loses even more than it does now.

However, some of the american buying public aren't at all about looking at the total cost of ownership, and THOSE are the folks that GM needs to buy the car. My big concern is after the batteries are depleted, what then? Crush the car? Would anyone feel like they're getting a deal right now on a used 2002 Camaro SS for $10k but have to replace the engine in it for $12K or so first before driving it home? That's the dilemma many used car buyers will face when the Volt needs new batteries as far as current technology goes.

This said, I hope the Volt proves me wrong, but I'm still not thinking the American public is ready to embrace it as many who have a vested interest hope it will.