G.M. Prices Its Shares at $33 in Return to Stock Market

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by d69chris

They still owe the tax payers BILLIONS and expect us to buy more stock!

I didn't own any, but know people who lost their ass!

Government would have to sell the rest of their stake at $53 a share to get their money back. I do believe that they can get that in a year or two, because GM is projected to make so much money in the future.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by UCI CamaroFan

Government would have to sell the rest of their stake at $53 a share to get their money back. I do believe that they can get that in a year or two, because GM is projected to make so much money in the future.

I doubt that very much. You guys need to understand that $33 at the current O/S is very different from $33 at what the o/s will be in two years. If GM hits the $50s after all the coming dilution, it would be because of some SERIOUS profit on GMs part. At this point it is almost unimaginable. If GM can hold $30s for the next few years it would be a massive success. $50s would be an absolute miracle.

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I doubt that very much. You guys need to understand that $33 at the current O/S is very different from $33 at what the o/s will be in two years. If GM hits the $50s after all the coming dilution, it would be because of some SERIOUS profit on GMs part. At this point it is almost unimaginable. If GM can hold $30s for the next few years it would be a massive success. $50s would be an absolute miracle.

GM is estimated to make 5.40 a share next year and over 7 in 2012. That means to recoup the government money, it would only need a forward pe of 10. They have strong earnings growth ahead of them, it's completely possible.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I doubt that very much. You guys need to understand that $33 at the current O/S is very different from $33 at what the o/s will be in two years. If GM hits the $50s after all the coming dilution, it would be because of some SERIOUS profit on GMs part. At this point it is almost unimaginable. If GM can hold $30s for the next few years it would be a massive success. $50s would be an absolute miracle.

How did you come to this conclusion?

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

How did you come to this conclusion?

he's talking out his ass. lol.

[syr74]

There is absolutely nothing in GM's financial reporting to indicate continued increased profitability or to even to verify what GM currently claims they profit. In fact, given their last three financial statements I seriously doubt that GM is actually turning a profit at all. They simply shuffled enough paper to show a profit on paper to make for a better IPO...nothing more, nothing less.

The problem with that is, it generally only works once. The rest of the shares to be sold off wont benefit from the same voo doo accounting and hype.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

There is absolutely nothing in GM's financial reporting to indicate continued increased profitability or to even to verify what GM currently claims they profit. In fact, given their last three financial statements I seriously doubt that GM is actually turning a profit at all. They simply shuffled enough paper to show a profit on paper to make for a better IPO...nothing more, nothing less.

The problem with that is, it generally only works once. The rest of the shares to be sold off wont benefit from the same voo doo accounting and hype.

proof?

[Mr Twisty]

So... here's the deal. You're in control of half a billion dollars and you're considering investing in GM's IPO.

Do you say.. "hmm, $33.00 sounds fair, let's do it!" Of course not! You have a room full of some of the brightest minds in accounting and trading poring over GM information to estimate the value of the shares.

You don't just throw around hundreds of millions of dollars on a whim. and please no BS government spending comments.

[Russell James]

If I had hundreds of millions to go stock shopping with, I'd peak at what Warren Buffett/Berkshire Hathaway has been buying lately. Coke, Wells Fargo, American Express, Kraft, Proctor & Gamble, Wal mart...

I can't remember seeing him dabble in the US auto industry lately.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

So... here's the deal. You're in control of half a billion dollars and you're considering investing in GM's IPO.

Do you say.. "hmm, $33.00 sounds fair, let's do it!" Of course not! You have a room full of some of the brightest minds in accounting and trading poring over GM information to estimate the value of the shares.

You don't just throw around hundreds of millions of dollars on a whim. and please no BS government spending comments.

I love this argument. If you don't think major firms make incredibly stupid decisions on a surprisingly regular basis I have some ocean-front property for sale in Wyoming. The fact that what was once the largest corporation in the world could actually go broke within the course of a few decades is proof enough of that. Or, do you think first class decision making led to that?

Originally Posted by DGthe3

proof?

The only news source I know of that has openly picked up on what I have is actually one of the better IPO sites on the Web.

http://www.gaskinsco.com/linkto-gm3.shtml

Here they do some simple comparisons between what GM has reported and what Ford has reported on their respective financial statements. Ford and GM have roughly similar overall sales, Ford has shown more profit than GM which should find them an even higher percentage of taxes, but despite the fact that GM owes no Federal taxes to the U.S government they show a 33% tax debt for the first quarter of the year. Ford who actually does owe the U.S. govt taxes, only shows a 2% tax debt despite making more money. You can't even begin to remotely account for that with international taxes so, why would GM show so much tax debt on a quarterly statement?

I can tell you that GM used deferred tax credits to hide losses in 2007, a move which led to the thermo-nuclear loss they posted in the third quarter of 2007. Now, I'm not making any accusations here....but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Well, you get the picture.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by d69chris

They still owe the tax payers BILLIONS and expect us to buy more stock!

I didn't own any, but know people who lost their ass!

They do not owe the Treasury anything.

This is not the place, but if you'd like me to explain -- shoot me a PM.

Originally Posted by syr74

http://www.gaskinsco.com/linkto-gm3.shtml

That is an incredibly biased and......hrm...."questionable" source....yeah, that's about the right word; "questionable".

Originally Posted by Russell James

If I had hundreds of millions to go stock shopping with, I'd peak at what Warren Buffett/Berkshire Hathaway has been buying lately. Coke, Wells Fargo, American Express, Kraft, Proctor & Gamble, Wal mart...

I can't remember seeing him dabble in the US auto industry lately.

Of course not. The situation is anything but concrete....the ENTIRE Industry. Gas prices are rising, sales are...good, but not great. Debt is still a problem for most companies, others don't seem to know their foot from their elbow, and competition is FIERCE.

Warren Buffett doesn't take chances. That's not a reflection of the viability of xxxxx stock though. Otherwise...what? Investors should sell anything he doesn't own?

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That is an incredibly biased and......hrm...."questionable" source....yeah, that's about the right word; "questionable".:

You not liking what he has to say does not make him questionable. Below is another site showing the same high tax debt in another way (ie: not a percentage). Feel free to show me where I'm wrong, but everything I see appears to show a tax debt much, much, much higher than can be explained away by actual taxes. Like I said, people might want to use caution here.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...17/477894.html

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by syr74

You not liking what he has to say does not make him questionable.

No...my not believing for a second he has all his facts straight makes it questionable. I saw no less than two things that are false in that article...yet he spun'em for the story!! The great thing about the stock market is.......*drumroll* It's subject to about as much speculation and opinion as anything else is. That site is the result of one guy wanting to spew his opinion across the web and make money off of it. Sorry for my lack of trust.

I'll never really understand the drive behind some people tearing down GM. Sure, I'm a fan...but this bewilderment goes beyond that.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

No...my not believing for a second he has all his facts straight makes it questionable. I saw no less than two things that are false in that article...yet he spun'em for the story!! The great thing about the stock market is.......*drumroll* It's subject to about as much speculation and opinion as anything else is. That site is the result of one guy wanting to spew his opinion across the web and make money off of it. Sorry for my lack of trust.

I'll never really understand the drive behind some people tearing down GM. Sure, I'm a fan...but this bewilderment goes beyond that.

So now two respected websites supposedly have the incredibly high tax debt reported on the 1Q documents wrong? Here's a third. I have a fourth if you need it. http://www.christonium.com/automotiv...ancial-results

So now we have three guys wanting to spew exactly the same opinion across the internet to make money on it? Like I said, you may not like what he has to say but that reported tax debt exists and is enormously high. Ignore it all you want, it wont go away.