Chrysler says it wont repay gov't loans of taxpayer money

[jrc1122]

They most definitely are controlling decisions. Maybe not all decisions, like red stitching or black... but things like EPA, CAFE standards, to "safety standards. To put conditions on how monies are to be spent, and paid back. Even down to scolding the CEOs of the Big three for flying in on private jets. Guess what next time, these guys who make millions of dollars ended up driving in in hybrids, for the dog and pony show.

They were strong armed after receiving money from Uncle Sam to sell off or get rid of some of their brands, making a leaner, newer company.

Funny how zero talk came up of offing Saturn or Pontiac, until after they took or agreed to take Government money.


Like it or not, the government's hands are all over the business of the car industry right now.
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Honda Racing Corporation specifications

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

They most definitely are controlling decisions. Maybe not all decisions, like red stitching or black... but things like EPA, CAFE standards, to "safety standards. To put conditions on how monies are to be spent, and paid back. Even down to scolding the CEOs of the Big three for flying in on private jets. Guess what next time, these guys who make millions of dollars ended up driving in in hybrids, for the dog and pony show.

They were strong armed after receiving money from Uncle Sam to sell off or get rid of some of their brands, making a leaner, newer company.

Funny how zero talk came up of offing Saturn or Pontiac, until after they took or agreed to take Government money.


Like it or not, the government's hands are all over the business of the car industry right now.

GM doesn't need to comply with CAFE if it doesn't want to. It just has to pay a fine if its below the limit. Safety ... isn't that one of the roles of the government, to keep its people safe from harm? Private jets, nobody in Washington mandated that the CEOs must come back in hybrids. The CEO's chose to on their own because of the stupid backlash they got from the media. There was talk of killing and selling brands before they took federal money from the Bush administration.

So, the government isn't really controlling the decisions. Because when the company decides how to do something, thats their decision. In order to reduce dependence of oil from unstable or hostile states (a nation security issue) the government created CAFE. The automakers decide what they will do to comply (like use E85, build more efficient cars, or exploit loopholes), some of which simply pay the fine (like Ferrari). Its not controlling the decisions of company. Affecting them, yes. Controlling them? No.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

... isn't that one of the roles of the government, to keep its people safe from harm?

Losely translated maybe. 'To ensure Domestic tranquility' and 'Promote the general welfare' have been broadened and abused. No, the feds job is not to babysit us the way they do. Accountability has been removed from us and it's all about fault. This is why our country has the sense of entitlement attitude that it does. Everything has to be sombodies fault.

PERSONAL accountability is lost because the feds think that they have to 'Micro-manage' us.

But, I do agree with you concerning HOW companies react and do business within the rules they are given. Great reference with the Ferrari. I've allways said, I don't HAVE to follow the rules. I just have to deal with the consequences of NOT following them. If I can still benefit and no one gets hurt, then fine, I make that decision.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by 305pride

hm. ima miss the chally, and the rest of the srt8 family.

its not going anywhere for a while....and even if it does by that time it wouldve alrdy had a 500hp motor and available in every color.

[THUMPER20X]

LOL Fix It Again Tony, will never sell in North America. Its like an Italian Yugo. Chrysler might as well have bonded with Lada. lol

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Zabo

I could say the same thing about the 'Vert and the Z/28, the new Cadillac ATS/XTS, the Regal..

Hell even the Coyote in the Mustang.

true, I never said that wasn't possible too...no need to rool your eyes, just stating what MIGHT happen, because things are always changing...

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM doesn't need to comply with CAFE if it doesn't want to. It just has to pay a fine if its below the limit. Safety ... isn't that one of the roles of the government, to keep its people safe from harm? Private jets, nobody in Washington mandated that the CEOs must come back in hybrids. The CEO's chose to on their own because of the stupid backlash they got from the media. There was talk of killing and selling brands before they took federal money from the Bush administration.

So, the government isn't really controlling the decisions. Because when the company decides how to do something, thats their decision. In order to reduce dependence of oil from unstable or hostile states (a nation security issue) the government created CAFE. The automakers decide what they will do to comply (like use E85, build more efficient cars, or exploit loopholes), some of which simply pay the fine (like Ferrari). Its not controlling the decisions of company. Affecting them, yes. Controlling them? No.

Whatever helps you sleep at night-- PS I didn't say Obama Government, I said Government- So throwing Bush into doesn't change my argument.

Call me a nerd, but I actually watched CSPAN when the CEOs of the big three were called before congress. I heard specifically members of government reprimand them on the news the first time, and the second time, it was mentioned on the floor there new travel arrangements went noticed and would effect the governments decision on future loans etc.

Affecting/ Control- semantics.

There is only one authoritative power in the entire country that can put you behind bars, and that is the US government (Including state government)

So when the sole legal authority "affects" your business decisions. Call it what you want, but it is more than just a simple request.

Good Point about CAFE.. Or should I say thanks for helping my Good point.
Not only is the US government the only organization that can use ultimate force to get what it wants. It is the only organization in the country that can fine you for not buying into their causes. So they don't put you in Jail if you don't agree to CAFE standards (yet)-- now they just tax you (fine you) if you don't do things they want you to do. Making it harder for your company to make a profit and stay in business.


Ethanol is a great example of the government pushing a "green" agenda and offering tax breaks and all these other promises if they would simply make a product that their was no demand for.

You see in a free society, a company makes products that they think there is or will be a demand for. But the government simply came in and said...
scary things like.. Foreign Oil, Raising sea levels, Carbon footprint, Cap and Trade, etc... look at my hockey stick chart,, etc. etc... and then by strong arming major industry to buy into their agenda.

It is hard to say no- to the government, when they can simply regulate and tax you into bankruptcy and out of business. Sure don't meet CAFE standards, but pay X amount of fine dollars.


This isn't an administration debate, this is a much bigger than Rep. or Dem.
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MEDICAL MARIJUANA PATIENTS

[cHaotix]

Sorry, but that's just how things are always gonna work. Ferrari doesn't seem to be having a problem with it.

[THUMPER20X]

Originally Posted by cHaotix

Sorry, but that's just how things are always gonna work. Ferrari doesn't seem to be having a problem with it.

No but theres a reason they stopped building the Dino lol.

[OverZeaLouS]

The CEO's at Chrysler should be executed!
The challengers fat!
The charger's a pigmobile.
The chrysler 300c is played out like ruffles on tuxes.
The town and country is boring.
I can't think of any other models and I don't want to know any...

Chrysler sucks... they will always suck. Since 1978, they just have the occasional hit. They are mostly unreliable and the cars don't last more than 120,000 miles. Chrysler is the joke of america.
Ford and GM over the last 6 years have been putting out more desireable vehicles.

If it were up to me? I would have let them sink from the get go.

[Partick]

Sooooooooo.... I really like my Camaro...lol

[Sax1031]

The taxpayer will not be made whole in the bailouts to GM and/or chrysler.

Anyone expecting otherwise was very naive.

[ArkySS]

Freakin' grave diggers....

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by OverZeaLouS

The CEO's at Chrysler should be executed!
The challengers fat!

You should've stopped there, cuz this part's funny. The rest is sort of pointless rhetoric.