80 mpg . . .

[fad1]

What ever the case is, I was very surprised by the Jag.

[ZYAL8R]

That they put GM at a disadvantage because thanks to low gas prices, the cars the gov't wants them to build aren't desireable to consumers. They exist though.

One last thing before I turn in. We bought 142.3 billion gallons of gasoline in 2007 (which was the highest year to date). at $.18 a gallon; the federal government makes roughly $26 billion. That's pocket change hardly worth mentioning when your an entity taking in Trillions of dollars a year. The government not allowing high-mpg cars theories just don't make sense....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html[/QUOTE]




But that's a contradiction in itself. Think about it. If those low MPG cars exist, and I think they do. And the gov't says, OK, we want some higher MPG cars, BUT not the ones that we know can go much higher, that do exist, but we won't mention it here, well that does add billions to the G-man's bottom line. It looks "green-er" than what is currently available, but not as "green" as what could be done. Which in in turn adds an a@@load of "green" to the bottom line, b/c of more gas purchased, then taxed by the G-Man.

I fully believe in the theory behind big oil, but I am not so sure that the average legislator can fully appreciate the dynamics of what they might be asking for in terms of greener, higher MPG cars and what it may/may not do for the economy. Of course the economy is just stupid right now, which in turn affects me. Maybe I'm looking for answers and can find none, but just b/c the economy is stupid-bad, I can't think for one minute big oil doesn't have something to do with it.

The worst part is, come hell or high water, I will cower at the pumps and burn as much fuel as fast as I can in my new 2SS. And after all the ranting, that's how "they" know they have me by the

I do however, value your opinion and it has me thinking.

[Kelster]

Chevydude is right about the Fiesta, it can reach 70 mpg.. Hell I had a friend in high school who had an '87 nissan sentra that we got 60 MPG out of once. The regulations that keep the euro fiesta as well as all of Fiat, SEAT, Alfa and the japanese KEI size vehicles has to do with crashworthyness. The NHTSA has apparently embarked on a crusade to completely eliminate highway deaths from wrecks by mandate.. They won't ever succeed, but in the process the ever more strict crash worthyness rules are forcing manufacturers into ever smaller design boxes, hemmed in by the NHTSA. The irony is that the crash worthyness standards are keeping out perfectly safe vehicles that could help the manufacturers meet the CAFE standard, also lorded over by; the NHTSA.
This bureaucracy is completely out of control and is aiding in the ruin of the American automotive industry, IMHO.

[TheClassicCarKid]

Same reason ford won't sell the diesel fiesta here, Americans won't buy diesels.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

Same reason ford won't sell the diesel fiesta here, Americans won't buy diesels.

I would, I wouldn't buy a fiesta but I would buy a diesel if it was offered in a car that I like.

[383ss]

Originally Posted by ZYAL8R

Agree w/all the above and more. After 100 years building cars, our beloved automakers know how to make a gallon of gas last. So what's the holdback? Got to be the G-Man. It may sound far-fetched to some, but really think about how big oil affects the bottom line of soooo many corporations and industries. Simple truth is, when gas prices go up, everybody makes money in the corporate world. I mean look at what the grocers did w/food prices once the price of gas went up, all the while saying it was only the cost of the transport making the rise. Well I'll be da**ed! Has anyone seen the price of ANY goods go down since the price of gas is at an ALL-TIME LOW? Anybody?

Quick answer to that is no. Seems to me like the shareholders have all gotten used to the big profits, all b/c of BIG OIL. Transporters, shippers, plastic makers, metal industries, and even electric companies (of all people) all blame the oil/gas prices on their sudden upswing of prices. When really it's all "supposed to be reliant on the price of oil going up or down". Oil up, other product prices up. Oil down, WTF? Where's the break?

If gov't. wasn't in bed w/ big oil, then why does BIG OIL get to reap whirlwind billions of profit quarter after quarter even w/legislative inquiries and STILL no change whatsoever? Gov't. has a love/hate relationship with big oil. Kinda like this. Love it when their bottom line us up, hate it when we complain, love it when they can keep "stickin' it to the man", namely us.

Make no mistake about my rant here, I KNOW how it all works, but that doesn't mean I like it. I don't. It makes me even madder when all those "higher than thou" legislators bitched about the BIG AUTO execs actually using some of that high-priced jet fuel to make their meetings, when you and I know that they do the same dam thing but using tax-payer money to do it. And then gripe about wanting more MPG out of a car? Talk about biting the hand that feeds ya!:middlefinger:

I don't even know where to start.

high gas prices make all coporations money? it hurts everyone except the oil companies. if you can't see this I don't know what to say.

food prices are going down some and will go down more. this is effected by much more than gas prices. Corn, wheat, soy and all other commodities are coming WAY down from all time highs. (corn was $8/bu, now its $3) it takes a little while for this stuff to come back into a lower cost in the end product though.

The government can't easily nor should it regulate corporate profits. We are a capitalist country and have a free market!

it doesn't sound like you know how anything works to me.

[manimsoblack]

Originally Posted by camaro_corvette

I would, I wouldn't buy a fiesta but I would buy a diesel if it was offered in a car that I like.

Exp. If the new Camaro came with the 3.0 V6 TFSI that Audi has, 290hp 317 lb-ft, and get's better than 24 mpg Avg for instance?

[Speedy1975]

Well, I won't debate whether gov't wants gas prices to remain higher, or if they want more fuel efficient cars but I'll tell you two things:

1. Due to the DECREASE in demand for fuel over the past 6 mos my local government has lost several million dollars in tax revenue from the sale of gasoline. They're now trying to raise the tax on gas by 10 cents per gallon to compensate going from 18 cents a gallon to 28. They're proposing a 15 cent per gallon increase on diesel as well. I bet it passes.

2. Due to more fuel efficient cars being sold and more fuel efficient cars being designed there are rumblings that the government is looking at taxing the number of miles you drive per year tracked via satellite boxes in new cars rather than taxing fuel directly.

You drove 15,000 miles this year, your tax bill is $XXXX.XX.

[DGthe3]

Couple things to remember:
1 UK gallon = 1.2 US gallons and diesel =~25% better fuel economy. So to me, this 80 mpg is about as impressive as 53 mpg in a gasoline powered car here, which is still better than nearly everything on the road.

[ZYAL8R]

Originally Posted by 383ss

I don't even know where to start.

high gas prices make all coporations money? it hurts everyone except the oil companies. if you can't see this I don't know what to say.

food prices are going down some and will go down more. this is effected by much more than gas prices. Corn, wheat, soy and all other commodities are coming WAY down from all time highs. (corn was $8/bu, now its $3) it takes a little while for this stuff to come back into a lower cost in the end product though.

The government can't easily nor should it regulate corporate profits. We are a capitalist country and have a free market!

it doesn't sound like you know how anything works to me.

I guess you think that those corporations that can, don't pass any gas price increase on to the consumer? Of course they do. And not only that, they throw in a little extra to boot. The only people hurt by gas prices are truly the consumers. But to say that the only ones reaping benefits are the oil companies is a fallacy. I don't even want to get into discussing how banks, insurance companies, your IRA providers and the like love to invest in ENERGY stocks. They make money off energy stocks!

And how do you think corn, wheat, and soy gets planted and harvested in the first place? By tractors. Yes that's right. Tractors that use a lot of diesel. And when they use lots of diesel that costs alot, that gets passed on to us. And then there is the transportation of goods. That makes the corporations that deliver the stuff more money too. It may cost them more, but again they pass it on. So absolutely it makes them money. Of course the rate at which prices come down just don't match the fall of gas prices, it's not gonna. But there can be no doubt that a corporation would want them to fall rapidly either, b/c more profit could be made by dragging out the excuses of high gas prices.

I never said the gov't should regulate prices. It would be nice, but it won't happen in my lifetime. They won't regulate b/c there is taxes to be gained.

It may be time for you get your head outta the sand.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

All three cars were diesel... or at least two of them were.
- Xanthos

and yet here we are still running on regular gasoline.... I still say 4.5L diesel camaro Z28. 500ft lbs of torque and 40mpg.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I've just got one issue with the Big Oil conspiracy theories....what piece of legislation, or rule in some mandate written by the Government...is preventing the Big Three from making high-mpg cars here in the US?

the rule of american consumerism. look back a year or so ago. when big trucks and SUV's were the "cool" thing. gas was cheap, no one cared about gas prices. then gas skyrocketed and auto manufacturers are left with this overabundance of big trucks/suvs and everyone wants the small cars like back in the 70s. regardless of if they are only getting 2mpg more in their little car. but the thing to keep in mind is that while the auto companies do push the technological barrier, the need for it is not drastic. while we WANT more mpg, we dont NEED it to survive. and until that point comes, the mpg will climb ever so slowly. the vehicles getting 50+mpg are going to be expensive as crap due to the fact that they are a new vehicle/engine and people arent set up to just buy new cars that are going to cost them more to buy it than it would to buy the extra gas for their current vehicle.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

As for the diesel -- you might be surprised how clean diesel is. But again -- our culture is not accepting of a diesel car. Not to mention it'd be more expensive than a gas-equivalent.

it would be more expensive until our culture were to switch to it over gasoline. most people hear/read diesel and think = dirty. but anymore, they are becoming as clean if not more clean than regular gasoline engines. not to mention the power capabilities of diesel. I cant wait for the 4.5L to drop into GM's cars.