Motor Trend: ZR1 vs 911 Turbo

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

As for why not the GT2 RS? Probably because HP is about the only thing those cars have in common. The GT2 RS would likely win every performance category since its nearly a street legal race car. So you're left with a pretty boring story: the more expensive car is faster. Wow, who would have guess that one!

The 911 gt2rs is as much a street legal race car as the zr1, so I don't understand what point you're trying to make. If you're referring to the roll cage, I'm pretty sure I explained many times that it's part of a sport package OPTION, it's not the standard equipment, but okay.

As for the "Wow, who would have guessed that one!" comment, they have done it before. This is the first one which comes to mind, and I'm sure I could find a billion like it:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

[HeHasReturned]

Oh, and btw, it's apparent that Cmicasa's been cherrypicking:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...1_turbo_page_3

[DGthe3]

Until that post, I haven't seen anyone talking about the roll cage here.

Yes it is street legal. I said that so don't bother trying to get me to argue about it. But when Porsche calls it the "RennSport" (Racing Sport, normally used to designate homologation production runs) its pretty safe to call it a street-legal racer. In addition to running over 1.5 atm of boost, the suspension has been siginifcantly stiffened and they've cut weight by removing some carpeting and use carbon fibre race-seats. This is the sort of thing done to track-only cars, not daily drivers.

Meanwhile, the ZR1 is generally regarded as the nicest, most comfortable Corvette sold. The interior is better than on lesser models, and the ride is more compliant. The car can be completely docile when driving around, until you decide to stomp on it and it transforms into a beast. These are hardly the characteristics of a 'street legal racer'



Yes, I know the story of "expensive car wins, what did you expect" has been done before. How do you think I know that its boring to read?

[THEKING]

The Porsche 911 turbo is an amazing car. The car makes a great daily driver. I use mine 1000 miles per month.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The interior is better than on lesser models, and the ride is more compliant. The car can be completely docile when driving around, until you decide to stomp on it and it transforms into a beast. These are hardly the characteristics of a 'street legal racer'

So I take it you've driven both cars, or you've read a review of the 911 gt2rs that says the ride isn't compliant, that the car is never docile? Don't you think that's a little quick to judge based on a description of the seats and carpet? What Porsche to date has been less compliant than the Vette?

And it's funny that you call the zr1 "docile." Every single review that the zr1 wins, the writers are always praising it for its harsh demeanor, saying they love the "beast," love tossing it around the corners, whereas the Porsche's, Audis, etc. are too docile and too easy. Now suddenly the Porsche becomes harsh (which by the way we don't even know of until somebody drives the car) and people are like "No, we like the docile." Funny

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

So I take it you've driven both cars, or you've read a review of the 911 gt2rs that says the ride isn't compliant, that the car is never docile? Don't you think that's a little quick to judge based on a description of the seats and carpet? What Porsche to date has been less compliant than the Vette?

And it's funny that you call the zr1 "docile." Every single review that the zr1 wins, the writers are always praising it for its harsh demeanor, saying they love the "beast," love tossing it around the corners, whereas the Porsche's, Audis, etc. are too docile and too easy. Now suddenly the Porsche becomes harsh (which by the way we don't even know of until somebody drives the car) and people are like "No, we like the docile." Funny

Well, most of us don't have the privilege of hopping into two $130K cars and comparing them.

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Well, most of us don't have the privilege of hopping into two $130K cars and comparing them.

You don't have to. Maybe I accidentally made it sound like that in my last post, but have any of the mags driven the car and given a thorough review yet?

[a_Username]

I have a question, when people want the "same specs!" comparison, then what's the point of comparing two vehicles? Where's the fun of comparing two vehicles that both have 600 HP, both have RWD, and both weigh the same. The list goes on and on... At least comparing price-to-price would give a variance of cars to look at.

[HeHasReturned]

Never mind, there have been some test drives. What's funny is that this sounds exactly like what DG said:

The equipment list might make you think madness lies this way, but as you register the quiet, almost boring note of the twin-turbo engine, engage the gentle clutch and pull away, you could be forgiven for being a little disappointed. The 2011 Porsche 911 GT2 RS just goes about its business like any other Porsche. It rides well and stays quiet at speed, despite the loss of acoustic insulation and the conversion to plastic bodywork.

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/91...rst-drive.html

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by a_Username

I have a question, when people want the "same specs!" comparison, then what's the point of comparing two vehicles? Where's the fun of comparing two vehicles that both have 600 HP, both have RWD, and both weigh the same. The list goes on and on... At least comparing price-to-price would give a variance of cars to look at.

The price-to-price comparisons are especially useful for buyers who are looking to get into that market, and have a set amount of money to spend.

The "same specs!" comparisons are for the enthusiasts who want to see who can do 600+hp rwd awesomeness better.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

The price-to-price comparisons are especially useful for buyers who are looking to get into that market, and have a set amount of money to spend.

The "same specs!" comparisons are for the enthusiasts who want to see who can do 600+hp rwd awesomeness better.

How can one be better than another when both have 600 HP, RWD, Same weight, same gears, same this and that?

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by a_Username

How can one be better than another when both have 600 HP, RWD, Same weight, same gears, same this and that?

There's more than meets the eye. A BMW M3, Lexus IS-F, and C63 AMG are very similar on paper, but there is a difference in driving dynamics. Just as there is a difference between the Mustang and Camaro, difference between Viper and zr1, difference between e63 AMG and CTS-V, etc.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

So I take it you've driven both cars, or you've read a review of the 911 gt2rs that says the ride isn't compliant, that the car is never docile? Don't you think that's a little quick to judge based on a description of the seats and carpet? What Porsche to date has been less compliant than the Vette?

And it's funny that you call the zr1 "docile." Every single review that the zr1 wins, the writers are always praising it for its harsh demeanor, saying they love the "beast," love tossing it around the corners, whereas the Porsche's, Audis, etc. are too docile and too easy. Now suddenly the Porsche becomes harsh (which by the way we don't even know of until somebody drives the car) and people are like "No, we like the docile." Funny

It wasn't just on the seats and carpet, there are other things too. Some of which was changed for the 125 US spec cars, like going back to glass for the window instead of polycarbonate or the addition of airbags. The goal from Porsche was to make it a street legal race car, just like every other Porsche RS I've heard about.

Did you not read or simply not understand what I wrote with regard to the 'dual nature' of the ZR1? I'll repeat it and clarify:
"The car can be completely docile when driving around, until you decide to stomp on it and it transforms into a beast"

It has a spilt personality, depending on how you drive it. Want to just drive it like a normal car? You can and it acts accordingly. Want to be aggressive? It becomes aggressive.

All the times when they're exclaiming the thrilling, beastly nature of the ZR1, they're driving it hard, usually on a closed course with an experience driver. But look up reviews where they talk about driving it on public roads and not taking corners at 60 mph.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

There's more than meets the eye. A BMW M3, Lexus IS-F, and C63 AMG are very similar on paper, but there is a difference in driving dynamics. Just as there is a difference between the Mustang and Camaro, difference between Viper and zr1, difference between e63 AMG and CTS-V, etc.

There is a lot of difference between the cars you've listed.For example, In the case of the Mustang vs. Camaro: 412 HP vs. 426 HP, 5.0L vs. 6.2L, ~3600lbs vs. ~3850lbs, 255s vs 275s, etc. Those sure aren't the same specs.

Price allows manufacturers to produce cars with different styles in order to achieve a similar performance goal, but cars that have the same specs will obviously perform the same.