The Saga Continues: Toyota Recalls More in Japan

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

That is how Toyota USED to think.

And still does think.

Its the Japanese culture. They are taught from a young age to always place the blame on someone else for their mistakes and poor judgements. Just like when they tried to blame drivers for pushing the wrong pedal, then floor mats for hanging up the pedal, and finally the American pedal manufacturer for making defective pedals.

All that time, the defect lied in Toyotas own electronic throttle control system

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Wesman

And still does think.

Its the Japanese culture. They are taught from a young age to always place the blame on someone else for their mistakes and poor judgements. Just like when they tried to blame drivers for pushing the wrong pedal, then floor mats for hanging up the pedal, and finally the American pedal manufacturer for making defective pedals.

All that time, the defect lied in Toyotas own electronic throttle control system

Actually no thats not the Japanese culture at all. I work for a Japanese company and the overwhelming mantra is that we're all in this together, but if you really F up you need to fall on your sword. Otherwise to the end they will cover for each others mistakes and help each other out no matter what.

And if you have read up on the whole "Toyota scandal" the NHTSA has released preliminary results that have found people failed to depress the brakes sufficiently in EVERY ONE of the reported "accidents" except for one. Of course thats on the bottom of the headlines because its not sensational enough.

[Coldpants]

A good comparison of automotive corporate culture was done by This American Life in there NUMMI episode which can be heard here. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...sode/403/nummi

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Actually no thats not the Japanese culture at all. I work for a Japanese company and the overwhelming mantra is that we're all in this together, but if you really F up you need to fall on your sword. Otherwise to the end they will cover for each others mistakes and help each other out no matter what.

Thats one company out of hundreds. The evidence is overwhelming against Toyota, there were even internal company documents showing the coverup and how much money Toyota saved by covering up the problem. They deserve to go out of business, these are peoples lives at stake.

And if you have read up on the whole "Toyota scandal" the NHTSA has released preliminary results that have found people failed to depress the brakes sufficiently in EVERY ONE of the reported "accidents" except for one. Of course thats on the bottom of the headlines because its not sensational enough.

If the defective throttle systems didn't hold the throttle open for no reason in the first place, drivers wouldn't have to worry about pushing the brake pedal to try and stop the car from accelerating out of control!! Not only that, but Toyota brakes are shitty and undersized to begin with that all it takes is a couple hard brake applications for them to get hot get hot and they fail completely.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Wesman

Thats one company out of hundreds. The evidence is overwhelming against Toyota, there were even internal company documents showing the coverup and how much money Toyota saved by covering up the problem. They deserve to go out of business, these are peoples lives at stake.

I deal with many Japanese expats on a daily basis, as well I have experience with other Japanese companies through my family as well. I'm not Japanese, but Italian-American, but I still take offense to you stereotyping these people based on some internal memos on a perceived safety issue that got blown out of proportion. EVERY company does that. Ford and GM both did it, read up on this before commenting. I'm NOT a Toyota fan by any means, but I am a fan of fairness and how they were blackballed was unfair, as much as I wanted to see it happen.

If the defective throttle systems didn't hold the throttle open for no reason in the first place, drivers wouldn't have to worry about pushing the brake pedal to try and stop the car from accelerating out of control!! Not only that, but Toyota brakes are shitty and undersized to begin with that all it takes is a couple hard brake applications for them to get hot get hot and they fail completely.

The throttle wasn't held open except in the case of some sticky floormats which they acknowledged. The sticking throttle in many cases wasn't, do some google searches you can see a more detailed explanation, but the basic gist is there really wasn't a problem with sticky accelerators, it was a problem with the floormats and widespread group panic mentality. The same group panic that drove SUV prices into the toilet as soon as gas hit 5 bucks a gallon last year.

And those shitty undersized brakes are the same as the brakes most average cars in America have. There has been nothing ever shown that the brakes on their boring beige cars are any worse than the brakes on every other brands boring beige car, and are perfectly fine for normal road use.

As I said I'm no Toyota fan, they've gotten away for too many years producing automotive appliances instead of real cars, but if you're gonna call them out at least get your facts straight.

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I deal with many Japanese expats on a daily basis, as well I have experience with other Japanese companies through my family as well. I'm not Japanese, but Italian-American, but I still take offense to you stereotyping these people based on some internal memos on a perceived safety issue that got blown out of proportion. EVERY company does that. Ford and GM both did it, read up on this before commenting. I'm NOT a Toyota fan by any means, but I am a fan of fairness and how they were blackballed was unfair, as much as I wanted to see it happen.

I really don't care. Toyota has no excuse for what they did, and they should pay for it dearly.

The throttle wasn't held open except in the case of some sticky floormats which they acknowledged. The sticking throttle in many cases wasn't, do some google searches you can see a more detailed explanation, but the basic gist is there really wasn't a problem with sticky accelerators, it was a problem with the floormats and widespread group panic mentality. The same group panic that drove SUV prices into the toilet as soon as gas hit 5 bucks a gallon last year. [/QUOTE]

It had nothing to do with the floormats. Cars WITHOUT floor mats were experiencing unintended acceleration. Its all been well documented. Many victims reported the throttle pedal being at the top, not depressed at all, and the car still trying to accelerate. It was a glitch in the PCM, which was addressed when the cars were reflashed during the recall.

And those shitty undersized brakes are the same as the brakes most average cars in America have. There has been nothing ever shown that the brakes on their boring beige cars are any worse than the brakes on every other brands boring beige car, and are perfectly fine for normal road use.

No, they are not. I work in the automotive industry and I see what all kinds of various makes of vehicles are equipped with for braking duties. The Japanese pinch pennies when it comes to things comsumers don't phyisically see, and brakes are no exception. How else do you explain $40,000 Lexuses and Acuras that still use ancient single piston cast iron calipers with small rotors?? They are heavy, rust easily, and don't stop well at all. Yet they keep using them, because they are cheap. The Honda Fit has such poor brakes that it gets outstopped from 70MPH by a Ford F-150 Supercrew King Ranch. Look at a $40,000 Cadillac or Lincoln, and you'll find dual piston aluminum calipers with properly sized rotors. Many if these calipers are made by PBR of Australia. Even GM full size trucks have PBR dual piston aluminum rear calipers.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Wesman

I really don't care. Toyota has no excuse for what they did, and they should pay for it dearly.

So you're gonna stereotype a whole country of people for what Toyota did. Seriously thats messed up.

It had nothing to do with the floormats. Cars WITHOUT floor mats were experiencing unintended acceleration. Its all been well documented. Many victims reported the throttle pedal being at the top, not depressed at all, and the car still trying to accelerate. It was a glitch in the PCM, which was addressed when the cars were reflashed during the recall.

Did you even bother to read what I posted? No you didn't. Did you research anything? No you didn't. The NHTSA tested the cars involved in accidents found that there was no stuck accelerator in any of the accidents. Not only that you are WRONG about the recall, they never reflashed the PCM because they never said that was the problem. And nobody reported the car just took off on its own, the reports were that they pressed the accelerator and it would never return, it would hang.

No, they are not. I work in the automotive industry and I see what all kinds of various makes of vehicles are equipped with for braking duties. The Japanese pinch pennies when it comes to things comsumers don't phyisically see, and brakes are no exception. How else do you explain $40,000 Lexuses and Acuras that still use ancient single piston cast iron calipers with small rotors?? They are heavy, rust easily, and don't stop well at all. Yet they keep using them, because they are cheap. The Honda Fit has such poor brakes that it gets outstopped from 70MPH by a Ford F-150 Supercrew King Ranch. Look at a $40,000 Cadillac or Lincoln, and you'll find dual piston aluminum calipers with properly sized rotors. Many if these calipers are made by PBR of Australia. Even GM full size trucks have PBR dual piston aluminum rear calipers.

And I'm supposed to believe you based upoin your posts here? No I don't think so, a quick trip to Acura's website shows the TL for example comes factory with 13 inch rotors all around and dual piston front calipers. The Lexus website, Their mid-line sedan the GS has 13 inch rotors up front and 12 in the back with dual piston calipers as well.

You are wrong but you won't admit it, instead you will make up "facts" to back up your story.

[The_Blur]

Daihatsu, a Japanese small car manufacturer under Toyota's management, has recalled another 500k cars. This recall doesn't affect the US, the home to 10.5 million of Toyota's recalled 12.3 million vehicles. Leftlane reported.

Allow me to repeat. Toyota has now recalled over 12,300,000 vehicles.

This recall involves housings that have changed from amber to white. As a result, Toyota has cheaply decided to merely replace the white bulbs with amber ones. This decision reduces light output by up to 75%, making the light harder to see.

Discuss.

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

So you're gonna stereotype a whole country of people for what Toyota did. Seriously thats messed up.

No, seriously, its not. The Japanese live in a strange culture, and not one I care to take part in.

Did you even bother to read what I posted? No you didn't. Did you research anything? No you didn't. The NHTSA tested the cars involved in accidents found that there was no stuck accelerator in any of the accidents. Not only that you are WRONG about the recall, they never reflashed the PCM because they never said that was the problem. And nobody reported the car just took off on its own, the reports were that they pressed the accelerator and it would never return, it would hang.

OF COURSE THERE WAS NO STUCK ACCELERATOR!!

The accelerators don't stick!! The PCM holds the throttle plate at wide open throttle even after the pedal is released.

And once again, you are WRONG. The PCM gets reflashed. Straight from Toyotas website:

"In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals"

Thats part of the reflash. What they don't tell you is that they also flash the rest of the computer and implemented other changes.

And I'm supposed to believe you based upoin your posts here? No I don't think so, a quick trip to Acura's website shows the TL for example comes factory with 13 inch rotors all around and dual piston front calipers. The Lexus website, Their mid-line sedan the GS has 13 inch rotors up front and 12 in the back with dual piston calipers as well.

Thats only in the new models of the TL and GS. Previous models (2008 and earlier) still had single piston cast iron calipers with 11" rotors. Garbage on a $40,000 car.

Honda only recently started using dual piston calipers up front because with the increased weight of their newer cars, the single piston systems were pathetic, even by Hondas lax standards. American cars have had aluminum and/or dual piston calipers standard on many models for over 10 years.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Wesman

No, seriously, its not. The Japanese live in a strange culture, and not one I care to take part in.

Wow way to dance around your stereotyping and racist comments. They do have a strange culture, they are different. No ones asking you to take part in their culture, just to accept them as human beings and that not all of them are some sort of evil because they are different.

OF COURSE THERE WAS NO STUCK ACCELERATOR!!

The accelerators don't stick!! The PCM holds the throttle plate at wide open throttle even after the pedal is released.

And once again, you are WRONG. The PCM gets reflashed. Straight from Toyotas website:

"In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals"

Thats part of the reflash. What they don't tell you is that they also flash the rest of the computer and implemented other changes.

OHHHHH I SEE You must work for them and you KNOW thats in the reflash because..... well wait... YOU HAVE NOTHING AT ALL THAT SAYS THIS IS TRUE BECAUSE IT IS NOT! They flashed the PCM for a brake override. You are ASSUMING they are changing something else when its ALREADY PROVEN not to be a PCM problem. Way to make the facts fit your STORY.

Thats only in the new models of the TL and GS. Previous models (2008 and earlier) still had single piston cast iron calipers with 11" rotors. Garbage on a $40,000 car.

Honda only recently started using dual piston calipers up front because with the increased weight of their newer cars, the single piston systems were pathetic, even by Hondas lax standards. American cars have had aluminum and/or dual piston calipers standard on many models for over 10 years.

I give up on this as well as arguing with you. You are an obvious racist towards the Japanese many of which I count as my friends. As well you seem to like to make up "facts" to support your story when you have not one iota of proof.

I'm sure theres some nice anti-japanese boards for you for the rest of the people stuck in world war II.

I give up on this one.

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Wow way to dance around your stereotyping and racist comments. They do have a strange culture, they are different. No ones asking you to take part in their culture, just to accept them as human beings and that not all of them are some sort of evil because they are different.

Where are the racist comments?? There are none. Thats you exaggerating things.

The Japanese have a strange culture. Thats not "racist", its a fact.

OHHHHH I SEE You must work for them and you KNOW thats in the reflash because..... well wait... YOU HAVE NOTHING AT ALL THAT SAYS THIS IS TRUE BECAUSE IT IS NOT! They flashed the PCM for a brake override. You are ASSUMING they are changing something else when its ALREADY PROVEN not to be a PCM problem. Way to make the facts fit your STORY.

Of course there was a reflash involving the ETC. There is no other way to address the problem. "Shimming" the pedals was a joke, its just a way to satisfy the people who actually thought the throttle pedals themselves were sticking.

Do you honestly believe Toyotas propoganda that it was the pedals even though no pedal has ever been shown to be stuck on the floor?? If so, you are 100% clueless.

I give up on this as well as arguing with you. You are an obvious racist towards the Japanese many of which I count as my friends. As well you seem to like to make up "facts" to support your story when you have not one iota of proof.

Heres the problems with your statement:

You can't be racist against inanimate objects. Vehicles are inanimate objects.

I never said anything racist or used any racist terms. You are grasping at straws to try and support your arguement and Toyota's reputation.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Wesman

Where are the racist comments?? There are none. Thats you exaggerating things.

The Japanese have a strange culture. Thats not "racist", its a fact.



Of course there was a reflash involving the ETC. There is no other way to address the problem. "Shimming" the pedals was a joke, its just a way to satisfy the people who actually thought the throttle pedals themselves were sticking.

Do you honestly believe Toyotas propoganda that it was the pedals even though no pedal has ever been shown to be stuck on the floor?? If so, you are 100% clueless.



Heres the problems with your statement:

You can't be racist against inanimate objects. Vehicles are inanimate objects.

I never said anything racist or used any racist terms. You are grasping at straws to try and support your arguement and Toyota's reputation.

Read my original post, do some research the NHTSA released these findings NOT Toyota.

Your idea that they reflashed the ECMs to fix the problem is conjecture not fact, until you have some facts then everything you say is just that.

And finally what you talked about was the Japanese culture, not their cars, and what you were saying was racist by pidegnholing all of them into the ideals you claim were toyotas. I'd quote it, but its right here in this thread in the first couple of posts for you to see.

I wasn't even going to respond but others seem interested. That said I'm done with this argument. I'm talking to a myopic wall who believes what he believes and won't even bother to think or do some research.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by Wesman

No, seriously, its not. The Japanese live in a strange culture, and not one I care to take part in.



OF COURSE THERE WAS NO STUCK ACCELERATOR!!

The accelerators don't stick!! The PCM holds the throttle plate at wide open throttle even after the pedal is released.

And once again, you are WRONG. The PCM gets reflashed. Straight from Toyotas website:

"In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals"

Thats part of the reflash. What they don't tell you is that they also flash the rest of the computer and implemented other changes.



Thats only in the new models of the TL and GS. Previous models (2008 and earlier) still had single piston cast iron calipers with 11" rotors. Garbage on a $40,000 car.

Honda only recently started using dual piston calipers up front because with the increased weight of their newer cars, the single piston systems were pathetic, even by Hondas lax standards. American cars have had aluminum and/or dual piston calipers standard on many models for over 10 years.

tell that to ford and GM who sold/sell cobalts and focci (focuses)? with drum brakes in the rear....... your number of over 10 years is a bit.....off

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Daihatsu, a Japanese small car manufacturer under Toyota's management, has recalled another 500k cars. This recall doesn't affect the US, the home to 10.5 million of Toyota's recalled 12.3 million vehicles. Leftlane reported.

Allow me to repeat. Toyota has now recalled over 12,300,000 vehicles.

This recall involves housings that have changed from amber to white. As a result, Toyota has cheaply decided to merely replace the white bulbs with amber ones. This decision reduces light output by up to 75%, making the light harder to see.

Discuss.

So basically, they used a 15 cent part where they should have used a 20 cent part, and are trying to fix it with a 4 cent part because that way, they're still coming out ahead. As least it isn't as bad as the gas pedal floor mat solution (remove floor mat and saw off pedal). When will car companies learn that cheaping out on stuff ends up costing them more in the long run?