The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The ACR is faster than the ZR1.

If it's faster then why did the ZR-1 beat it on the Supercars show on Speed?

The only thing the Viper is faster on is the Nurburgring.

[Supermans]

It appears a lot of people are in denial about Ford' s resurgence as leader of the muscle car pack, taking the title away from the Camaro SS after one years time. It is still an unknown how much power the Z28 will have vs the 2012 GT500 and I believe all that will depend on who releases their numbers first... Then afterword's it will be at the tracks etc.. Which will make very interesting forum topics and discussions. AS for the Camaro getting a boost in HP for 2012 in order to match the 5.0's quickness at the track, and then adding more support to give it better lateral G numbers in the turns is hopeful to occur however no word on that yet. Perhaps a track pack for the Camaro that increases price but matches or betters the Mustang is in the works. All of this spell's "good times" for muscle car fan's. One thing though is certain, just as the Camaro enjoyed one years worth of being top muscle car, now the 5.0 gets to bask in the sunlight for at least as long or perhaps longer. Only time will tell.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

If it's faster then why did the ZR-1 beat it on the Supercars show on Speed?

You do realize that was not a ACR on that Supercars show right?

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

You do realize that was not a ACR on that Supercars show right?

That's right it was an SRT10 I think. The ACR they used had the big ricer type wing on the back that created all the down force for them.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by Supermans

It appears a lot of people are in denial about Ford' s resurgence as leader of the muscle car pack, taking the title away from the Camaro SS after one years time. It is still an unknown how much power the Z28 will have vs the 2012 GT500 and I believe all that will depend on who releases their numbers first... Then afterword's it will be at the tracks etc.. Which will make very interesting forum topics and discussions. AS for the Camaro getting a boost in HP for 2012 in order to match the 5.0's quickness at the track, and then adding more support to give it better lateral G numbers in the turns is hopeful to occur however no word on that yet. Perhaps a track pack for the Camaro that increases price but matches or betters the Mustang is in the works. All of this spell's "good times" for muscle car fan's. One thing though is certain, just as the Camaro enjoyed one years worth of being top muscle car, now the 5.0 gets to bask in the sunlight for at least as long or perhaps longer. Only time will tell.

I couldn't have said it better! Next year is going to be a very very interesting year to say the least. Maybe the interior will be updated too for the Camaro next year. Too bad we will probably have to wait till toward the end of the year for the Z/28 comparisons though.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

I couldn't have said it better! Next year is going to be a very very interesting year to say the least. Maybe the interior will be updated too for the Camaro next year. Too bad we will probably have to wait till toward the end of the year for the Z/28 comparisons though.

Thanks a lot

[Sax1031]

This is the king of the american cars:

http://www.viperheadquarters.com/race_vipers/acr-x.html

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

This is the king of the american cars:

http://www.viperheadquarters.com/race_vipers/acr-x.html

There should be an official Viper Mega thread for that beast

[JusticePete]

Guys,

I OWN and make suspension parts for both the Camaro and Mustang. BOTH cars have pluses and minuses. I like them both but for different reasons. What I enjoy most is there is an intense rivalry between Ford and Chevy which benefits EVRTYONE. Chevrolet will sell more Camaros. Ford will sell more Mustangs. Most important, the competition will breed better Camaros and Mustangs.

Is there a hands down winner? I doubt it.

Off the showroom floor I would take the Camaro because it is a more refined automobile.

Modified??? That is a really tough question and why the debate rages on.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Guys,

I OWN and make suspension parts for both the Camaro and Mustang. BOTH cars have pluses and minuses. I like them both but for different reasons. What I enjoy most is there is an intense rivalry between Ford and Chevy which benefits EVRTYONE. Chevrolet will sell more Camaros. Ford will sell more Mustangs. Most important, the competition will breed better Camaros and Mustangs.

Is there a hands down winner? I doubt it.

Off the showroom floor I would take the Camaro because it is a more refined automobile.

Modified??? That is a really tough question and why the debate rages on.

How long have you driven both the 5.0 and the SS to make the "refined" statement in comparison? Just curious. For me, one years worth of driving the SS and it had rattles, shakes, wind noise coming from outside when driving on the expressway while a windy whirring sound coming from the AC inside. No lumbar support in the premium seats and no cover from the factory for the cup-holders. Shifter mechanism is clunky/noisy and not smooth at all. The distance between the clutch pedal and the brake are too far apart to perform a proper heel to toe with ease. I haven't even gotten to the lack of visibility all around (C-pillar girth). In my opinion, the interior of the Camaro SS cannot hold a candle to the "refined" interior of the new Mustang 5.0 with premium leather trim package. Hopefully this new 2012 Camaro's interior fixes a lot of these issue's I have with it.

Currently, the Mustang interior has the superior "My color gauge with ambient lighting" system all over the place as well and a more capable stereo system with sub-woofers in the doors standard that give it a much needed bass that is lacking in the Camaro's Boston Acoustics system. Trust me, I wasted $500 bucks on the Boston acoustics upgrade and I wish I hadn't. I posted here how it lacked in sound compared to my 1998 Mustang's Mach 460 sound system as well..

If by refined you mean the IRS, and standard Brembo's then that would be about it. However the 5.0 has been refined over the 2010 GT and produces numbers that surpass the SS's refinement on curvy tracks and straightaways. It currently matches the BMW M3 in those categories. That is refinement if you ask me..

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Supermans

How long have you driven both the 5.0 and the SS to make the "refined" statement in comparison? Just curious. For me, one years worth of driving the SS and it had rattles, shakes, wind noise coming from outside when driving on the expressway while a windy whirring sound coming from the AC inside. No lumbar support in the premium seats and no cover from the factory for the cup-holders. Shifter mechanism is clunky/noisy and not smooth at all. The distance between the clutch pedal and the brake are too far apart to perform a proper heel to toe with ease. I haven't even gotten to the lack of visibility all around (C-pillar girth). In my opinion, the interior of the Camaro SS cannot hold a candle to the "refined" interior of the new Mustang 5.0 with premium leather trim package. Hopefully this new 2012 Camaro's interior fixes a lot of these issue's I have with it.

Currently, the Mustang interior has the superior "My color gauge with ambient lighting" system all over the place as well and a more capable stereo system with sub-woofers in the doors standard that give it a much needed bass that is lacking in the Camaro's Boston Acoustics system. Trust me, I wasted $500 bucks on the Boston acoustics upgrade and I wish I hadn't. I posted here how it lacked in sound compared to my 1998 Mustang's Mach 460 sound system as well..

If by refined you mean the IRS, and standard Brembo's then that would be about it. However the 5.0 has been refined over the 2010 GT and produces numbers that surpass the SS's refinement on curvy tracks and straightaways. It currently matches the BMW M3 in those categories. That is refinement if you ask me..

The big red I is the single largest problem in all these threads....I have none of the complaints you have, does that make the Camaro king then?

It cracks me up when so many of the Ford crew doesn't even OWN a 2011 GT yet here they are boasting away about a car they haven't even driven!!!

It's all subjective....Pete posted his opinion and it should be respected as such.

I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it...however, I don't degrade or rebutt your opinion because you can't truly prove an opinion wrong now can ya?

Mustang/Camaro debates remind me of Yankee/Red Sox, Bears/Packers, Cubs/White Sox debates....no matter what the other side will never tip it's hat to the other.

They had ought to just shut these threads down because they are no win dog chasing it's tail debates that escalate into personal attacks.

Just my point of view, take it as such.

[JusticePete]

My Camaro was library quiet stock. The IRS delivers a far more refined ride over bad roads. In performance driving the Camaro seats are much better in holding you in the drivers position. The SS brakes are outstanding. The rear brakes on the Mustang belong on a 1968 Mustang.

The Mustang electronics including Sync are superior. Being lighter does wonders for acceleration as does the 3.73 gearing. The 11 Mustang steering is vastly improved over the 10. The exhaust note on the Mustang is superb.

The Ford computer is a tell where the GM computer is an ask.

The list could go one for pages, but the net result on track at Gingerman between a 2011 Mustang with Brembos and a stick was a second faster than an SS Camaro with an automatic. The data and experience on the track tell us the two cars would be in a dead heat auto to auto and stick to stick.

That said, the Mustang rear brakes were gone after 1.5 hot laps. The Camaro SS brakes were still good after 6. Off the show room floor for the way I like to drive a car, the Camaro is the better choice. With the Saleen brakes and Cobalt Friction pads the Mustang brakes are off the charts. Bottom line, the rear brakes and solid rear axle hold the Mustang back. The weight advantage can offset the solid rear axle. The Mustang has more potential.

Then we go back to showroom. Pedders foundational suspension kits have always been bushes. We don't make a single brace for the Camaro. For the Mustang our foundational package will include a brace. We will offer three chassis braces for the Mustang. We offer more bushes for the Camaro.

This is why I enjoy the Camaro Mustang debates -- I hold them by myself every time I walk into my garage.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

My Camaro was library quiet stock. The IRS delivers a far more refined ride over bad roads. In performance driving the Camaro seats are much better in holding you in the drivers position. The SS brakes are outstanding. The rear brakes on the Mustang belong on a 1968 Mustang.

The Mustang electronics including Sync are superior. Being lighter does wonders for acceleration as does the 3.73 gearing. The 11 Mustang steering is vastly improved over the 10. The exhaust note on the Mustang is superb.

The Ford computer is a tell where the GM computer is an ask.

The list could go one for pages, but the net result on track at Gingerman between a 2011 Mustang with Brembos and a stick was a second faster than an SS Camaro with an automatic. The data and experience on the track tell us the two cars would be in a dead heat auto to auto and stick to stick.

That said, the Mustang rear brakes were gone after 1.5 hot laps. The Camaro SS brakes were still good after 6. Off the show room floor for the way I like to drive a car, the Camaro is the better choice. With the Saleen brakes and Cobalt Friction pads the Mustang brakes are off the charts. Bottom line, the rear brakes and solid rear axle hold the Mustang back. The weight advantage can offset the solid rear axle. The Mustang has more potential.

Then we go back to showroom. Pedders foundational suspension kits have always been bushes. We don't make a single brace for the Camaro. For the Mustang our foundational package will include a brace. We will offer three chassis braces for the Mustang. We offer more bushes for the Camaro.

This is why I enjoy the Camaro Mustang debates -- I hold them by myself every time I walk into my garage.

Thanks for the honest response. My SS was also quiet when it was brand new (I do remember some wind noise on the expressway on day 1 though at 70mph coming thru the window seal), however all that changed within the next few months and it got proggressivley and noticeably worse. SO worse that I took it to a dealer twice to try and fix the problems. I'm pretty sure you did not use the Camaro you drove on a daily basis like I did for over a year, am I right? Every car has more noise occur to it in rattles and shakes and wind noise as time goes on, that is a given. And since I did not measure the quietness when it was new to the loudness a year later, that comparison of sound and noises in the cabin while driving is subjective as well. Granted my current Mustang 5.0 is definitely a lot quieter than the Camaro SS was after a year, however I don't know if the Camaro was as quiet or not when it was brand new. I will have to go and test drive a 2011 SS at a dealer and then immediately drive mine the same speed and path to make a fair comparison. I just don't have the time to do that right now.

You are right that the Zeta platform is more solid and does not require braces while the Mustang's does. Those braces though do not make the Mustang suddenly as heavy as the Camaro so the advantage still remains in that area. Modding wise, the Mustang shows more potential which is good for your business. Remember 1 second faster in this war is a lot faster Glad to have you in the midst of the muscle car wars

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

The big red I is the single largest problem in all these threads....I have none of the complaints you have, does that make the Camaro king then?

So there is absolutely nothing you would like to see improved for the next model year for the Camaro's interior? It's 100% perfect for you? If it is, then I am very happy you got a Camaro that exhibit's none of the problems I mentioned. Is there a hole that has been drilled thru the C pillar so that you can see thru it now? Or are you wearing x-ray goggles? I'm just messing with ya.. Take care man and don't let my criticism get you all upset. Remember that the "I" in my post has been echoed by many in this forum and many reviewers as well.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Thanks for the honest response. My SS was also quiet when it was brand new (I do remember some wind noise on the expressway on day 1 though at 70mph coming thru the window seal), however all that changed within the next few months and it got proggressivley and noticeably worse. SO worse that I took it to a dealer twice to try and fix the problems. I'm pretty sure you did not use the Camaro you drove on a daily basis like I did for over a year, am I right? Every car has more noise occur to it in rattles and shakes and wind noise as time goes on, that is a given. And since I did not measure the quietness when it was new to the loudness a year later, that comparison of sound and noises in the cabin while driving is subjective as well. Granted my current Mustang 5.0 is definitely a lot quieter than the Camaro SS was after a year, however I don't know if the Camaro was as quiet or not when it was brand new. I will have to go and test drive a 2011 SS at a dealer and then immediately drive mine the same speed and path to make a fair comparison. I just don't have the time to do that right now.

You are right that the Zeta platform is more solid and does not require braces while the Mustang's does. Those braces though do not make the Mustang suddenly as heavy as the Camaro so the advantage still remains in that area. Modding wise, the Mustang shows more potential which is good for your business. Remember 1 second faster in this war is a lot faster Glad to have you in the midst of the muscle car wars

In fairness to the SS, drive the 5.0 for a year then comapre notes.

Also in regards to the one second, it wasn't apples to apples...it was a M6 GT and A6 SS.

And the battle rages on...lol