Volt pricing announced. Starts at $41,000*

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I see no logical reason to call it an EV. With an EV, if the battery dies you aren't going anywhere for a while. With a hybrid, if the battery dies jump start it and you're on your way.

But no hybrid has ever been so electrically-focused. You CAN never use a drop of gas in the Volt. After all nearly 80% of Americans drive less than 40 miles a day.

So you're right...but given the above capability of the car -- I think (and apparently GM thought so too) that this car warrants a new designation: Extended-Range Electric Vehicle.

The fact that many people call it an "EV" is half nickname (like Joe for Joseph), and half stress on the very real ability of the vehicle to drive only ever on electricity.

[Number 3]

Marketing or not, I've had the discussion with members of the Volt team on the deffintion of Series Hybrid. And yes, GM does not want people to simply hear Hybrid and confuse the Volt with a Prius and it's Parallel Hybrid system or even GM's own 2 Mode Hybrid System. Yes, a Prius can operate as a "mild" EV, running a few miles even without hard accleration or climbing grades. But the Volt is, if you choose it to be, a full EV for the first 40 miles. For those first 40 miles, it is NOT a Series Hybrid. And if you choose to operate as such it is simply an EV with plug in recharging. So EREV or Hybrid, the idea may not be new....................it's application in a car is.

[a_Username]

I understood why GM named the Volt an EREV. Its wheels are turned by electric motors, which classifies it as a Electric Vehicle. The only purpose the gas engine serves it to charge the electric motors once the original charge is depleted, which offsets electric motors only present disadvantage: range.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Many people don't want to learn. Many "people with voices" care more about inciting emotions out of their audiences to keep themselves in a job than making any real positive difference.

It's a lost cause to "embrace" any of them with a contradicting idea to their own.

I see a lot of people embrace only what they are told and never actually make up their own minds. It's shocking how much of what people state as fact is provably false but they have been fed the same misinformation over and over so much by "other people with voices" that care more about foisting an unpopular agenda on everyone else than making a positive difference.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I see a lot of people embrace only what they are told and never actually make up their own minds. It's shocking how much of what people state as fact is provably false but they have been fed the same misinformation over and over so much by "other people with voices" that care more about foisting an unpopular agenda on everyone else than making a positive difference.

Then we are both seeing the same world. And it depresses me on occasion. It's one of the reasons I wanted to become a teacher.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Marketing or not, I've had the discussion with members of the Volt team on the deffintion of Series Hybrid. And yes, GM does not want people to simply hear Hybrid and confuse the Volt with a Prius and it's Parallel Hybrid system or even GM's own 2 Mode Hybrid System. Yes, a Prius can operate as a "mild" EV, running a few miles even without hard accleration or climbing grades. But the Volt is, if you choose it to be, a full EV for the first 40 miles. For those first 40 miles, it is NOT a Series Hybrid. And if you choose to operate as such it is simply an EV with plug in recharging. So EREV or Hybrid, the idea may not be new....................it's application in a car is.

I was just looking through the latest issue of Automobile magazine and they had a cute ad for the Leaf. It was a colorful "graph" showing how many miles per dollar a collection of cars could go. The Leaf was roughly twice as economical as the prius.

No mention of the Volt on the ad. I'd be curious to know where it falls.

Honestly, I think the whole "EV/Hybrid" issue is not something we should be debating. It is what it is and that's the best of both worlds. To argue series/parallel/etc. is a waste of productive time.

The problem is that Leaf-fanboys are going to call the volt "Not a real EV" and GM is going to have to counter with something equally hard hitting.

I believe the Volt is the best of the technology and the right car for more people. You guys need to get the word out there before the word spreads against you.

As I stated above, plenty of people with their own agendas are gunning for you and they are going to repeat misinformation over and over and over until it beccomes fact. Very few people are going to research beond what they see on "Good Morning America" or read in the local paper, so if the facts are misrepresented and you don't act then you're going to lose.

"A lie makes it halfway around the world before the truth can put it's shoes on."

Get cracking!

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

The problem is that Leaf-fanboys are going to call the volt "Not a real EV" and GM is going to have to counter with something equally hard hitting.

I believe the Volt is the best of the technology and the right car for more people. You guys need to get the word out there before the word spreads against you.

As I stated above, plenty of people with their own agendas are gunning for you and they are going to repeat misinformation over and over and over until it beccomes fact. Very few people are going to research beond what they see on "Good Morning America" or read in the local paper, so if the facts are misrepresented and you don't act then you're going to lose.

"A lie makes it halfway around the world before the truth can put it's shoes on."

Get cracking!

May I ask what "misinformation" the Leaf fanboys have already spread about the Volt? Last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh could hardly be considered a Leaf fanboy

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Marketing or not, I've had the discussion with members of the Volt team on the deffintion of Series Hybrid. And yes, GM does not want people to simply hear Hybrid and confuse the Volt with a Prius and it's Parallel Hybrid system or even GM's own 2 Mode Hybrid System. Yes, a Prius can operate as a "mild" EV, running a few miles even without hard accleration or climbing grades. But the Volt is, if you choose it to be, a full EV for the first 40 miles. For those first 40 miles, it is NOT a Series Hybrid. And if you choose to operate as such it is simply an EV with plug in recharging. So EREV or Hybrid, the idea may not be new....................it's application in a car is.

I really am not trying to be a Debbie Downer about the Volt, at all, but if you think the Volt is not going to be considered by a vast majority of people as being similar to the Prius or Leaf, and competing direct with them, then you're giving the masses too much credit.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by HeHasReturned

May I ask what "misinformation" the Leaf fanboys have already spread about the Volt? Last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh could hardly be considered a Leaf fanboy

I don't know what he said. I just figure whatever he said was either taken out of context or he was commenting on something that the news is reporting. I don't even know if he mentioned the leaf.

If I were to guess, I would say Limbaugh is annoyed that the secured creditors were screwed in the bankruptcy deal and all the bankruptcy laws were ignored so that special interests were favored and given a large portion of the ownership of the company. He may simply not trust what people say because so much suspicious activity took place back then.

My leaf fanboy argument was based on comments I've read from people posting to articles about the leaf. The masses are already saying "Volt is not a 'real' EV like the leaf." They act like the Volt is inferior because it's done this way when in reality it's a better design.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I really am not trying to be a Debbie Downer about the Volt, at all, but if you think the Volt is not going to be considered by a vast majority of people as being similar to the Prius or Leaf, and competing direct with them, then you're giving the masses too much credit.

I think they will be compared but if their marketing people convince that a "pure EV" is somehow "better" than a "hybrid" then you're going to be in trouble if you are selling a hybrid and not a "pure EV".

This whole earth worship religion thing that's taken hold in society is going to hang like a millstone around the Volt if they don't take some proactive steps to get the word out. Nissan is going to drag the "It's ONLY a hybrid. It STILL burns evil dinosaur juice and is killing the planet!" campaign out and what do you do?

[HeHasReturned]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

My leaf fanboy argument was based on comments I've read from people posting to articles about the leaf. The masses are already saying "Volt is not a 'real' EV like the leaf." They act like the Volt is inferior because it's done this way when in reality it's a better design.

Well, honestly, like we've already discussed, the Volt is not really an EV anyways. That's hardly misinformation. If they are claiming that the Volt still burns dinosaur juice, well they are right.
What GM needs to do is go on a marketing campaign or something and explain WHY they made the Volt the way it is. If that means coming on CNN or going around showcasing the Volt or whatever, then be it. But if you're complaining that people are calling the Volt a "hybrid," there's nothing wrong with calling it as it is.
EDIT: This is not to mention, that of course, for some people, the Leaf is just a more practical solution. Maybe they only need a commuter car for the daily 50 mile roundtrip, and the Volt just doesn't cut it. You can't really call the Volt "better designed" if the Leaf works more for some people.

[GrnMchin]

I don't know many people that only need a in town car, not to say there are none. The extra cost of having a second car (fuel, insurance, maintenance, parking) has to weight in someone choice if your going w/ the Leaf. For us the fact was we would need a car capable of 300 miles before refueling at times, but 70% of the driving we do is 30-40 miles it was why I was looking at it. The downer was the price and limited release none in WA state..

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I don't know what he said. I just figure whatever he said was either taken out of context or he was commenting on something that the news is reporting. I don't even know if he mentioned the leaf.

If I were to guess, I would say Limbaugh is annoyed that the secured creditors were screwed in the bankruptcy deal and all the bankruptcy laws were ignored so that special interests were favored and given a large portion of the ownership of the company. He may simply not trust what people say because so much suspicious activity took place back then.

My leaf fanboy argument was based on comments I've read from people posting to articles about the leaf. The masses are already saying "Volt is not a 'real' EV like the leaf." They act like the Volt is inferior because it's done this way when in reality it's a better design.

Among other things, I believe he said that the Volt only has a range of 40 miles, with no mention of the range extending capability of the on board generator.

[cowboy1948]

Here is what I think.