Volt pricing announced. Starts at $41,000*

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Thus proving that the Volt isn't cost effective. You would be paying a $20k price premium to save $800 a year on fuel, a figure based on the assumption that the electricity would be free, and the notion that the Volt will actually go 40 miles on electricity alone. The conditions that allow 40 miles on the batteries are so idealized, that a Camaro SS would probably get 35-40 mpg under the same conditions.



I agree with this. Diesels or small conventional 4-cyl cars are much more cost effective.



I think the market would better police safety standards than the government. People's demand for safety alone would by itself make the cars exactly as safe as the buyers want them to be. In some ways, threshold government standards leads automakers to build "good enough" cars that they can advertise as meeting standards to make people feel good. Without them, I believe some cars may actually be safer than they otherwise would have been.



The only explanation can be a high compression ratio. However, doesn't the Volt use an Atkinson-cycle engine like other hybrids? If they did, you'd think it would be able to run on regular. If not, they're losing an easy source of efficiency.

What I still cannot believe are the people who argue in favor of GM over this decision to price the Volt so high. Mid $30's I can understand the first year and then bring it down a couple thousand a year to increase demand but $41,000 makes 99% of the general car buying public to look the other way.. No amount of advertising is going to convince people otherwise. Selling the Volt to a bunch of socialites and movie stars who want to show how green they are after they fly in with their private jets and helicopters to and from their homes who's electrical bill is 10 times more than the average home mortgage is just silly.

What our US Government should do is get rid of this "green hybrid" tax credit and apply it as a direct discount to their new Volt and they will have middle class people flocking to pre-order one making the demand higher so they can build more of them and get more out on the street more quickly. While the buzz is hot about this new electric car, then more people will be interested etc.. By having the price so high, it makes most of those interested in this look at the competition which arguably on paper sounds like it travels farther on a single charge even though it busts at long distances.

Unfortunately now that GM has made this decision, there is no turning back. In my opinion the damage will be in the loss of many potential customers who buy the Leaf or other competition instead..

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

I think the market would better police safety standards than the government. People's demand for safety alone would by itself make the cars exactly as safe as the buyers want them to be. In some ways, threshold government standards leads automakers to build "good enough" cars that they can advertise as meeting standards to make people feel good. Without them, I believe some cars may actually be safer than they otherwise would have been.

That is utterly wrong, it has been proven with each new safety innovation that has been offered as an option on cars, people will not buy them, it happened in the 50's and 60's with seatbelts, and in the 80's and 90's with airbags. Until the government said they had to be in cars nobody bought them...except for the people that were scared of everything...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Supermans

What I still cannot believe are the people who argue in favor of GM over this decision to price the Volt so high. Mid $30's I can understand the first year and then bring it down a couple thousand a year to increase demand but $41,000 makes 99% of the general car buying public to look the other way.. No amount of advertising is going to convince people otherwise. Selling the Volt to a bunch of socialites and movie stars who want to show how green they are after they fly in with their private jets and helicopters to and from their homes who's electrical bill is 10 times more than the average home mortgage is just silly.

What our US Government should do is get rid of this "green hybrid" tax credit and apply it as a direct discount to their new Volt and they will have middle class people flocking to pre-order one making the demand higher so they can build more of them and get more out on the street more quickly. While the buzz is hot about this new electric car, then more people will be interested etc.. By having the price so high, it makes most of those interested in this look at the competition which arguably on paper sounds like it travels farther on a single charge even though it busts at long distances.

Unfortunately now that GM has made this decision, there is no turning back. In my opinion the damage will be in the loss of many potential customers who buy the Leaf or other competition instead..

First, the average price of a new GM vehicle is $31,627 which is only about $2000 less than where the Volt starts after the rebate. Second, its lease deal practically matches the Leaf, yet the Volt is a superior vehicle: looks better, drives better, infinite range. Third, do you expect GM to take a $10,000 hit on each one, just so they can sell more and lose even more money on it?

I'm just making these numbers up, but bare with me. Lets say they lose $5000 on each of the 10k they plan on selling for 2011. Thats $50M right there. Now, drop the price another $5,000 and double the sales. GM is now going to lose $200M. Drop it another 5k and double sales again, now they lose $600M. Do it again, and its a $1.6B loss. Dropping the price of something you're already losing money on just to sell more is about the worst business plan out there, unless the goal is to see how quickly you can go bankrupt.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I think some people need to readjust their thinking in here...

None of these cars, while being practical...can possibly SAVE you any money over current gasoline prices. That was, is, and never can be the goal. These cars are feel-good for some, and legitimate solutions for others. But if you want to go green, independant, or whatever else the Volt stands for...you're going to have to pay. (At least until the cost of the tech goes down.)

What this vehicle does, above all else -- is set the stage for more. And gives Chevy a solid foot in the door for the electric car 'revolution'.

I can't possibly see how they could have priced it any lower. This project soaked up in EXCESS of a billion dollars to develop. Easily double the average new car, like the Camaro....

I guess you can't please everyone with a keyboard, though.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Supermans

What I still cannot believe are the people who argue in favor of GM over this decision to price the Volt so high. Mid $30's I can understand the first year and then bring it down a couple thousand a year to increase demand but $41,000 makes 99% of the general car buying public to look the other way.. No amount of advertising is going to convince people otherwise. Selling the Volt to a bunch of socialites and movie stars who want to show how green they are after they fly in with their private jets and helicopters to and from their homes who's electrical bill is 10 times more than the average home mortgage is just silly.

What our US Government should do is get rid of this "green hybrid" tax credit and apply it as a direct discount to their new Volt and they will have middle class people flocking to pre-order one making the demand higher so they can build more of them and get more out on the street more quickly. While the buzz is hot about this new electric car, then more people will be interested etc.. By having the price so high, it makes most of those interested in this look at the competition which arguably on paper sounds like it travels farther on a single charge even though it busts at long distances.

Unfortunately now that GM has made this decision, there is no turning back. In my opinion the damage will be in the loss of many potential customers who buy the Leaf or other competition instead..

GM was never intending to make this car affordable to the masses. In fact it is hugely technology laden to content the car for the price range. Simply adding the battery and electric motor to a base Cobalt would have made for a 35,000 Cobalt (based on the Cobalt LT I'm currently driving). Would that be a value? No. This car was never intended to sell in the 100s of thousands. It is a technology show case more in line with the Corvette than the Malibu. Accept it for what it is. Now keep in mind this is the starting point. As technology advances, the price may be adjusted on future models. But what everyone is forgetting is to factor in the 1.4 BILLION DOLLAR DOT loan Nissan got for the Leaf. Yes, I believe GM got some as well, but not nearly that much. So how much cheaper are Nissab batteries due to you tax dollars?

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

That is utterly wrong, it has been proven with each new safety innovation that has been offered as an option on cars, people will not buy them, it happened in the 50's and 60's with seatbelts, and in the 80's and 90's with airbags. Until the government said they had to be in cars nobody bought them...except for the people that were scared of everything...

Perfectly stated. GM invented and sold airbags on mid size sedans in the early 70's. I forget the price, but I think it was $500. Sold so few that the option only lasted for 2 years.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

First, the average price of a new GM vehicle is $31,627 which is only about $2000 less than where the Volt starts after the rebate. Second, its lease deal practically matches the Leaf, yet the Volt is a superior vehicle: looks better, drives better, infinite range. Third, do you expect GM to take a $10,000 hit on each one, just so they can sell more and lose even more money on it?

I'm just making these numbers up, but bare with me. Lets say they lose $5000 on each of the 10k they plan on selling for 2011. Thats $50M right there. Now, drop the price another $5,000 and double the sales. GM is now going to lose $200M. Drop it another 5k and double sales again, now they lose $600M. Do it again, and its a $1.6B loss. Dropping the price of something you're already losing money on just to sell more is about the worst business plan out there, unless the goal is to see how quickly you can go bankrupt.

Ok, DG, you are real close to making me redundant. Well said.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I think some people need to readjust their thinking in here...

None of these cars, while being practical...can possibly SAVE you any money over current gasoline prices. That was, is, and never can be the goal. These cars are feel-good for some, and legitimate solutions for others. But if you want to go green, independant, or whatever else the Volt stands for...you're going to have to pay. (At least until the cost of the tech goes down.)

What this vehicle does, above all else -- is set the stage for more. And gives Chevy a solid foot in the door for the electric car 'revolution'.

I can't possibly see how they could have priced it any lower. This project soaked up in EXCESS of a billion dollars to develop. Easily double the average new car, like the Camaro....

I guess you can't please everyone with a keyboard, though.

Ok, I officially have no ability for unique commentary any longer. Thanks!!!

[GrnMchin]

weather you sell 5 @ 100k or 10 @ 50K and you spent a million to build it you still lose and GM new that, so why not at lease try to keep it price competitive . To play w/ number with out known production cost is just that playing w/ numbers. I am going to take a wait a see approach to see the true market reaction is.. I just saw a Local new report about the Leaf and they ended w/ " and it's 8k cheaper the it's closes competition the Chevy Volt".. That's what the masses are told and will more then likely believe. a sad fact..

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

weather you sell 5 @ 100k or 10 @ 50K and you spent million to build it you still lose and GM new that, so why not at lease try to keep it price competitive . To play w/ number with out known production cost is just that playing w/ numbers. I am going to take a wait a see approach to see the true market reaction is.. I just saw a Local new report about the Leaf and they ended w/ " and it's 8k cheaper the it's closes competition the Chevy Volt".. That's what the masses are told a will more then likely believe. a sad fact..

It's price competitive when leasing...and DG has illustrated why you don't just sell it for a dollar because "you're loosing money either way".

As far as the news report...Chevy has practicality and pleasing aesthetics on their side. The two are NOT in the same league besides mode of propulsion...at least, not imo.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It's price competitive when leasing...and DG has illustrated why you don't just sell it for a dollar because "you're loosing money either way".

As far as the news report...Chevy has practicality and pleasing aesthetics on their side. The two are NOT in the same league besides mode of propulsion...at least, not imo.

I have never lease a car so, I see that the are equal there just not a lease fan. Time will tell if the consumers in the EV market care either way. I believe the Volt is the better car for the majority of folks, because of the flexibility to use it more then just an in town car. That was the biggest seller for me, but at $33.5k just lost it's appeal at 28k I was game.. I will wait and see over the next few years and take another look when the time comes to replace my DD.

[Camaro_Corvette]

WoW

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

I have never lease a car so, I see that the are equal there just not a lease fan. Time will tell if the consumers in the EV market care either way. I believe the Volt is the better car for the majority of folks, because of the flexibility to use it more then just an in town car. That was the biggest seller for me, but at $33.5k just lost it's appeal at 28k I was game.. I will wait and see over the next few years and take another look when the time comes to replace my DD.

Just remember. This is the very FIRST Volt.

Over time, cost should decrease as battery and motor technology evolves/spreads...just like a TV. Remember when a 36" LCD was $5000? Taking battery production in-house (which they did) should help the next Volts, too.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Not true at all.

I believe it is true. Leaf does not have a thermal management system like the Volt does. Range will decrease drastically because of that.

The Leaf is nothing more than a half-baked car. Americans don't want to sit at their computers on Mapquest and figure out if their Leaf has enough juice to take them to their destination and back. And even if it does, unforeseen circumstances will leave you stranded on the side of the road with a dead car.

Sure, you could own another gasoline-powered car for long-distance trips...but the Volt does both EV commutes and gasoline-powered long-distance trips. It's just more practical.

Do I like the $41k price tag? No. In all honesty, it sucks. I can somewhat see how all the tech crammed into the Volt would warrant such a price tag, but I was truly hoping for a mid-30s price tag. However, compared to the Leaf, this is a case of "you get what you pay for." Either buy a car that has no emergency backup fuel source or buy a car that will get you where you need to go regardless of range.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Just remember. This is the very FIRST Volt.

Over time, cost should decrease as battery and motor technology evolves/spreads...just like a TV. Remember when a 36" LCD was $5000? Taking battery production in-house (which they did) should help the next Volts, too.

That's my hope, just hard to break into the market with a big price tag. I hope the consumer does their home work and the Volt should do fine. I remember when plasma TV about 12" were over 10k..

[FenwickHockey65]

Almost every major manufacturer has some kind of EV in the works, so you can expect prices to gradually begin dropping.

[motorhead]

So how many people on here are going to trade their camaro in on one?