Volt pricing announced. Starts at $41,000*

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

That test resulted in 230 mpg but I think they've thrown out that particular testing cycle

They did. The EPA's working on a new formula.

[faninc]

Lets hear it for those who will pay 41,000 dollars and be green- so we all can drive our muscle cars!

I will buy the first Camaro electric car rated at 312 HP.

[derklug]

Doubling the complexity of the drivetrain, adding the weight of batteries, the cost of charging and fuel, all seems to be building a car more for PR than efficiency. TDI diesel with every Nav system and electronic junkie's dream interior would run 30k. At 50mpg it would only cost 6k in fuel at 15000 a year driving and 4 dollar diesel. In the very long run the Volt may be cheaper, but I would bet on the diesel holding together longer. All that being said, the wife thinks they are cute and would consider buying one in a few years. It's her money, she can blow it however she wants.

[Sax1031]

Diesel tech has come a long way. To bad in America their is still kind of a stigma against it.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Diesel tech has come a long way. To bad in America their is still kind of a stigma against it.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

No...not exactly...Volt was started much before the bankruptcy and the reformed CAFE standards (which they could have met without the Volt...).

They've been planning the Volt since the 1980s? http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

It was the brainchild of Lutz because GM has NO hybrid presence in the market, especially back then. They wanted to leapfrog toyota's prius with an electric vehicle as opposed to the standard hybrid. They did that.

Wanting to outdo Toyota is making good out of a bad situation. The very small market of hybrid vehicles were largely ignored by automakers simply because of relatively no demand or profit, prior to increased oil prices. These prices led to a drastic increase (I believe the number was a staggering 1000% increase since 2004) of the hybrid market. Since the introduction of CAFE, automakers are looking towards this small, unprofitable market simply because of PR and being forced to by law. And where I say they're making good out of a bad situation is that they are still keeping the competitive necessity of economics, while trying to gain some public perception by supporting the green movement.

The market chose this vehicle. People damned GM left and right when they sacked the EV1, and then people started buying up hybrids shortly afterward. See -- missed market potential. So, GM devises the Volt to make a splash. The PR was worth the initial loss to them. Stress on INITIAL loss, by the way...just like the prius it will eventually earn them money.

The (small) amount of consumers recently chose to buy fuel-efficient vehicles simply because of high oil prices. However, this still is a relatively small market. I can't find the number of hybrid vehicles produced, but the number sold worldwide was ~740,000. I'll give the benefit of the doubt here and say they produced ~1M hybrids worldwide in 2009; compare this to the total number of vehicles produced: ~50,000,000. It is barely 2% of the automotive market, so the market really hasn't changed at all. The consumers really haven't decided, relatively at all, to move to hybrid vehicles. It is only necessary to sell in this market because of legislation. It's no secret that hybrid vehicles or electric vehicles of any sort are the easiest to get insane fuel mileage, so what better type of vehicle to offset the legislation?

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I love the car and do understand why it is so expensive.

But having said that. I would never pay anywhere near that for that car.

or ANY car for that matter!..a "fool" and his money are soon parted!"-bill shakesphere

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by a_Username

They've been planning the Volt since the 1980s? http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

CAFE was most recently revised within the last few years. 35 mpg fleet average by 2015

The (small) amount of consumers recently chose to buy fuel-efficient vehicles simply because of high oil prices. However, this still is a relatively small market. I can't find the number of hybrid vehicles produced, but the number sold worldwide was ~740,000. I'll give the benefit of the doubt here and say they produced ~1M hybrids worldwide in 2009; compare this to the total number of vehicles produced: ~50,000,000. It is barely 2% of the automotive market, so the market really hasn't changed at all. The consumers really haven't decided, relatively at all, to move to hybrid vehicles. It is only necessary to sell in this market because of legislation. It's no secret that hybrid vehicles or electric vehicles of any sort are the easiest to get insane fuel mileage, so what better type of vehicle to offset the legislation?
Again, GM isn't planning on selling hundreds of thousands of Volts each year. First year of production will be limited to 10k units, followed by 30k the year after.

.

[All-Or-Nothing]

I think the Leaf will win this war.

It is cheaper, has a better lease deal, can sit more passengers, has an identical battery warranty, and greater "electric only" range. The Volt only wins in extended range and initial charging times however there are alternatives to shorten the charging times of the Leaf down to 30 minutes.

Ultimately I think the $10K saved over the Volt will play heavily in the Leafs favor.

Nissan Leaf

Vehicle type: Fully electric, four-door hatchback

Base price: $32,780

Lease deal: $349 per month, 36 months, $1995 down.

Battery size: 24 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion

Battery warranty: Eight years or 100,000 miles

Range: Up to 100 miles

Charging time: 8 hours at 220-volt outlet (also optional 30 min. fast charger)
On sale: December

Chevrolet Volt:

Vehicle type: Electric four-door sedan with engine to generate power after battery runs down

Base price: $41,000

Lease deal: $350 per month, 36 months, $2,500 down

Battery size: 16 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion

Battery warranty: Eight years or 100,000 miles

Range: Up to 40 miles on battery. Then gas motor kicks in to generate power for another 300 miles.

Charging time: Four hours at 220-volt outlet

On sale: November




OK lets discuss.....

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

.

Yes it was. However, the main goal of CAFE has been the same since its introduction. It's goal was to dramatically increase the average fuel economy of vehicles, which it did by gradually raising standards that manufacturers had to meet unless they wanted to pay meaningless fines. It's obvious CAFE is getting stricter with time, however its impact was still large even back in the 80s. The new revision is forcing automotive companies to make even more fuel-efficient vehicles, even if they are to be made at a loss.

The market decided back in the late 1800s and early 1900s that electric vehicles do not meet their needs, thus the universal choice of gasoline engines. All the money put into R&D, advertising, etc. could have been put towards other programs that could achieve a lot more financial promise than the Volt. The building of this car is simply cost-ineffective, and its success, that would be relatively small compared to other possible programs, is at the risk of the future. Its success hinges on an ever-increasing market for hybrid vehicles, which relies on oil prices to stay high. However, ignoring all the future optimism, the reason why GM is choosing to have such a slow start on production is because they know that this car isn't going to be profitable under current market demand. (GM is also counting on this technology to become more widely used, leading to a cut in costs through competitive forces. Although, the only way its going to become more available is through the demand of a hybrid/electric market.) The point is that without government regulation this vehicle probably wouldn't even exist, considering its main purpose of existence is to help meet CAFE Standards.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

I think the Leaf will win this war.

It is cheaper, has a better lease deal, can sit more passengers, has an identical battery warranty, and greater "electric only" range. The Volt only wins in extended range and initial charging times however there are alternatives to shorten the charging times of the Leaf down to 30 minutes.

Ultimately I think the $10K saved over the Volt will play heavily in the Leafs favor.

Nissan Leaf

Vehicle type: Fully electric, four-door hatchback

Base price: $32,780

Lease deal: $349 per month, 36 months, $1995 down.

Battery size: 24 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion

Battery warranty: Eight years or 100,000 miles

Range: Up to 100 miles

Charging time: 8 hours at 220-volt outlet (also optional 30 min. fast charger)
On sale: December

Chevrolet Volt:

Vehicle type: Electric four-door sedan with engine to generate power after battery runs down

Base price: $41,000

Lease deal: $350 per month, 36 months, $2,500 down

Battery size: 16 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion

Battery warranty: Eight years or 100,000 miles

Range: Up to 40 miles on battery. Then gas motor kicks in to generate power for another 300 miles.

Charging time: Four hours at 220-volt outlet

On sale: November




OK lets discuss.....

Which is what mainly made gasoline the universal choice for engines. Also, the $7,500 tax credit needs to be factored in somewhere.

[DGthe3]

Thing is, putting all the electric drive stuff aside, the Volt is simply a much nicer car than the Leaf. Then, include all the electric drive stuff, and the Volt is still a better car.

If you own a Leaf, you will need to have another vehicle at your house. Want to visit family or friends over 100 miles away? Can't take the Leaf. What about a road trip? Not going to happen. If you ever forget to plug it in when you get home, well I hope you don't live too far from work. And remember that your range will drop significantly in the winter because of the cold battery coupled with a running heater. And if you do run out of electricity, its going to have to be towed back to your house, afterall you can't fill a Jerry can with electricity.

And if you lease you save a grand total of $541, plus the cost of gas?

Originally Posted by a_Username

Also, the $7,500 tax credit needs to be factored in somewhere.

Its the same for both

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its the same for both

Wow, forgot about that! That may just be enough to sway people into the Leaf camp though. That is a good amount of money, but the Volt is the better car and its price acknowledges that.

I'm really trying to justify the Leaf. I'd believe the vast majority doesn't live over 40 miles (20 if your workplace doesn't let you charge your car for whatever reason) from their workplace, plus you can't use the Leaf for roadtrips like you've said. The only thing it has on the Volt is price, but the Volt sure does seem to have it beat in the bang for the buck category.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Thing is, putting all the electric drive stuff aside, the Volt is simply a much nicer car than the Leaf. Then, include all the electric drive stuff, and the Volt is still a better car.

Matter of opinion, people like what they like

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If you own a Leaf, you will need to have another vehicle at your house. Want to visit family or friends over 100 miles away? Can't take the Leaf. What about a road trip? Not going to happen. If you ever forget to plug it in when you get home, well I hope you don't live too far from work. And remember that your range will drop significantly in the winter because of the cold battery coupled with a running heater. And if you do run out of electricity, its going to have to be towed back to your house, afterall you can't fill a Jerry can with electricity.

I am willing to bet that a majority of the Leaf buyers already have another car sitting at home for just these instances but they would love to be gas free for their commute to work and other in town errands.