The Challenger might not pack all that much of a bite

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by SNS09

I have spent a lot of time on the Challenger forums. From the hints the DCX people are dropping, the 6.1L (435 HP and 420 lb/ft)will be the starter V-8 and the 5.7L will not be offered at all.

There is also a lot of speculation of a 6.4L (392) the following year because of what "people in the know" have been saying and because they've been parading one around for the past year. There is also a blown 392 they've been letting reporters drag (when one reporter asked what would happen if he broke it, the DCX development guy laughed and said that they'd just build another one). The 6.4L would be the converted crate engine. In crate form it makes 525 HP and 510 lb/ft at 10.5:1 compression. Because of emissions and what not it is expected to make 505 HP in production form.

Some of them are already talking about an Indy stroker kit (for the 6.1L) that will take it up to a 7.0L (426) putting out 565 HP and 600 lb/ft.

I love the way they look, but I agree that they will most likely be too heavy (though they are aware of the issue and working to address it). Plus, because of the compression, the Hemi's don't seem to lend themselves to forced induction (of which I am a big fan).

First off welcome to the site.

I have heard a lot of those same rumors too, and that all sounds great but I am the skeptical type to begin with. So I am also conservative in my guesses about the auto industry will actually produce. An auto industry, that historically caters to the general public rather than the enthusiast simply because the general public vastly outnumbers enthusiasts like us.

I have just seen from two "semi official" sources (I use that statement loosely) now that there will be a 5.7L and 6.1L version, and to me it actually makes sense….but I could be wrong.

Perhaps like you mentioned, in future years we will see the larger displacement variants of the HEMI in the Challenger like a 6.4L, but it isn't too long before the challenger hits the market and Dodge already has the logistics to mass produce the 5.7L and offer the 6.1L as a lower volume upgrade.

As you probably know, the Challenger will be launched in Feb 2008 at the Chicago Auto Show and that is only 6 short months away. I think more leaked information would be out regarding 500hp Challengers if there are going to be any at the time of launch.

I can see a 6.1L HEMI being offered as a only engine option for the launch year, but then I just don't see it being priced under $30K to compete with a Mustang. To me that would undercut the existing SRT-8s out there that have the same powerplant yet cost $36K-$41K. The only option I think that could be priced near the base Mustang GT is a 5.7L...like the Challenger R/T and Chrysler 300C, but I said that already ha ha.

That is my guess and I'm sticking to it....ha ha ha. If I am wrong oh well. It doesn't make me a less of a person.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I wonder, though, if Dodge/Chrysler had the "general public" in mind when they went to the go ahead for this car?

Besides, aren't they only producing something like 40,000 a year? Something this retro, and this under-produced (if it's true), should appeal to the old guys who want their Challenger back, instead of the mass-market like the Camaro.

[The_Stache]

That was the original intention dragon (i have been reading dodge sites aswell..). All indications though are its going to be produced on the same lines as the current charger/300/magnum and at least the 5.7L version will be under 30k (near the Mustang GT Vert range). If they can price it like that it will have a market for more than 40k.

The original 40k number was for the first year of production, they where going to keep it at 40k a year but when response was like camaro and the popularity of the mustang didnt die like they expected it to rumours are they changed thier minds and want to make it a part of the normal lineup. (and possibly a v6 version down the road)

I will see if i can find the posts about it if someone is really that interested..

[Dark Knight]

Yeah i remember reading somewhere that they were gonna do the V6 and V8 models too. But i have no clue as to where i read it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Oh, alright. Then Good deal. On that note, I don't think they'll pop a 6.4L into it untill a year or two down the road.

[Rock36]

Exactly...

I don't think any of these companies are going to unload their "big guns" in the first model year. It is in their interest to leave room for simple future expansions, and some reserve capability for quick response to the competition.


For instance company A produces a brand new 5.5L engine that makes
350hp in model year 1. Company A won't fully optimize that engine right away, because there would be no flexibility if company B produces a competing engine that makes 375 hp that same model year or in model year 2.

So instead of designing an entirely new engine with all the development costs associated. Company A can then do something relatively simple such as revise the cam grinds, improve heads/intake flows and then respond to company Bs engine with a new 380hp version of company A's fictional 5.5L. That also keeps consumer appeal fresh as well.

There are plenty of real world examples of this. So I definitely would expect Dodge to wait at least a year to drop in a 6.4L engine, because the 6.1L is already enough for the purposes they need.

[TAG UR IT]

^^^

The sad part is that all of this, IMO, is true. This means that GM will probably be holding back as well. The Dodge will be out. The Mustang, I think, will have been out for a month or two (not really sure). And now GM will have everyone else's "poker hands" out on the table. GM can now say ok...here's the engine choices that we're giving you since we know what Ford and Dodge has. Next year, Dodge puts in the bigger engine and so does Ford to compete w/ GM. But, GM never put the "goodies" under the hood of the first model year released Camaro.

Second year rolls around and GM one ups Ford and Dodge once again w/ hp #'s. If Rock is explaining it the way I think he is...GM isn't going to put in any big daddy engines until at least the second model year.

[Rock36]

Yeah you got what I was saying. I wasn't commenting on the Camaro or GM specifically. Mostly my feelings about the Challenger.

Though I would say that if there are any designs on a supercharged LS whatever being slated for the Camaro...that would be something held in reserve for a year or two.

I still think the LS3 will be what we get, but I also think there is room for expansion in the LS3 as well.

The 430 hp we have now in the LS3, might not be the rating it has two or three years from now.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Rock36

Though I would say that if there are any designs on a supercharged LS whatever being slated for the Camaro...that would be something held in reserve for a year or two.

I still think the LS3 will be what we get, but I also think there is room for expansion in the LS3 as well.

The 430 hp we have now in the LS3, might not be the rating it has two or three years from now.

Yup...and SC version of the LS3 would probably be coming out in it's second year....maybe.

It's funny if you look at the progression of the LS engines in the vette and the Camaro. The Camaro gets the goodies and the Camaro gets the upgrade the year after. The new vette will have the LS3. The Camaro comes out a year after. I will be money that the LS3 goes into the Camaro just like all the others.

Right now, it is rated at 430hp...436hp w/ a chambered exhaust. But, we saw the #'s from a simple cam swap and headers added.......504hp. So, it's a detuned version of the LS7. This engine is going to have a lot of potential.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

This engine is going to have a lot of potential.

(sings) Understatement!!!

[TAG UR IT]

and with that^^^look forward to the article I'm going to type tonight!!! GMHTP ROCKS!!! You are going to love this LS3 article!!! It'll be up in a few.