The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Doc]

Originally Posted by dms

It is interesting all discussions on comparisons are all about drag racing. No mention of any other type of tracking.

Mike
dms

I find all this interesting too. I think it's because drag racing is the easiest, requires the least skill for the least amount of time, and being competitive is purely a function of money which equals horsepower and traction. I'm not saying it doesn't require some skill, but whatever skill is used is only used for a few seconds.

I had some guy the other day at work showing me videos of a Supra with 1200 hp blowing away everything on the street including guys on racing bikes. And he's going on about how awesome the Supra is and I'm thinking "this has nothing to do with a Supra". All he was showing me was how 1200 hp can beat a few hundred hp which to me is an obvious point so why spend the money to demonstrate it? It didn't matter that it was a Supra; it could have been a Kia or any car with 1200 hp. But he had this look on his face like he thought he's awesomely superior because he drives a Supra too.

People are willing to spend all kinds of money and time "buying" an ego boost and then brag as though it's their brand of car that's superior. Right now the SS Camaro and the 2011 Mustang as tested by the magazines are dead even. When the difference is only a tenth or two in 1/4 mile times, that's driver variable. The 60 ft time alone determines that and that's very highly subject to the driver.

People complain about the cost of road racing or autocross but compared to the thousands they spend on hp and traction so they can have a few seconds of excitement at the drag strip... those thousands spent would cover months of the other two styles of racing, and most of that would be for tires.

But of course money doesn't buy you a win on a road course or autocross and that may be why you see so few here interested in it. They have to actually modify themselves first; their skill and experience. This takes time and probably falls into the category of exercising and losing weight; people may "intend" to but just don't quite get around to being able to actually do it. And you certainly don't get an ego boost plowing off a corner because you didn't take it right.

From my experience and observation, 1/4 milers race with their egos. Road course and autocross drivers are more about the challenge; them and their machine against the track. And they know full well that at any second on any corner they can go from hero to zero so losing is COMPLETELY about them and their skill; paying attention, focusing....it's all about driver performance. If you win, the driver gets the praise and rightly so. In 1/4 mile racing it seems it's the car that's praised because basically that's the truth; he who has the most money to buy hp and traction, wins. The magazines always compare the cars in a 1/4 mile test; never the driver and it's as though there is no driver when you read their "results" such as "Mustang Beats Camaro".

I love road racing. I love being on the track because it's such a pure experience. When you're on the track your mind is clear of EVERYTHING else and you're whole focus is on what you're doing. You're aware of every little sound, every ounce of feedback coming from your car. You FEEL the road in your mind; your attention, your brain, your thoughts accelerate to match and exceed your speed so you can be ahead of where you're going in order to control it once you get there because if you wait until you're there to think about it, it's too late.

Unfortunately I'm now getting too old to race like I'd really want to but man what a blast.

[GMRULZ]

Lol... I don`t think he`s 400lbs..LMAO... It`s probably got a lot of options on it, remember a lot of that stuff can add up more than the weight listed by the manufacturer. But he probably is 250...

[Sax1031]

The ones I have seen that posted weight stock have been in the 3800-3830 lb range with ~ a 200lb driver.

Hell the glass roof option that would be by far the heaviest option would only add 24 lbs to that.

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The ones I have seen that posted weight stock have been in the 3800-3830 lb range with ~ a 200lb driver.

Hell the glass roof option that would be by far the heaviest option would only add 24 lbs to that.

Maybe he had a full tank of gas, or perhaps the tracks scale was off possibly But that is what it weighed. I have weighed mine at the same track, disclaimer is it was a different day and my 2010 auto SS w/ me in it was 3985 w/ 1/8-1/4 tank gas same scale. He`s a local guy who has had some of the fastest stangs around and I don`t see why he would distort the raceweight.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Maybe he had a full tank of gas, or perhaps the tracks scale was off possibly But that is what it weighed. I have weighed mine at the same track, disclaimer is it was a different day and my 2010 auto SS w/ me in it was 3985 w/ 1/8-1/4 tank gas same scale. He`s a local guy who has had some of the fastest stangs around and I don`t see why he would distort the raceweight.

Their is no way in hell his stang weights more than your SS.

Unless you weight in the 140s and he is 300+ lbs.

The stang is a good 200 lbs lighter, most the time more.

[Sax1031]

I will agree the 2011 5.0 is a heavy car also.

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Their is no way in hell his stang weights more than your SS.

Unless you weight in the 140s and he is 300+ lbs.

The stang is a good 200 lbs lighter, most the time more.

I weigh 160. I do not know what he weighs. Follow the link and ask him. He has owned several Ford performance shops and is a mustang guy forever. He also has the fastest 03-04 Cobra in the Tidewater region of VA. You can pm him on that board its Tidewaterracing.com in the forums section. But thats what he said. I posted this to show what one mustang owner has found. Take it or leave it bro.. I didn`t write it he did. I just quoted him. I`m not asking him how fat or not he is...Thats just wrong...

....and if the scale was right when he weighed his, mine was weighed on the same scale about 8 months ago and the raceweight w/ driver was 12lbs less... Whatever the reason why. Mine was weighed with a CAI and headers w/ a catted x-pipe, 1/8-1/4 tank of fuel so its a little lighter than stock, I went no sunroof, no GFX, no RS to keep the weight down, although I did opt for the 2ss w/ leather and BA sound.

Matter of fact KungfuHamster(the mustang guy w/ many posts in this thread) was a member of that local board Tidewater Racing and probably still remembers Sean from that board and may be able to enlighten us further...

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by Doc

I find all this interesting too. I think it's because drag racing is the easiest, requires the least skill for the least amount of time, and being competitive is purely a function of money which equals horsepower and traction. I'm not saying it doesn't require some skill, but whatever skill is used is only used for a few seconds.

I had some guy the other day at work showing me videos of a Supra with 1200 hp blowing away everything on the street including guys on racing bikes. And he's going on about how awesome the Supra is and I'm thinking "this has nothing to do with a Supra". All he was showing me was how 1200 hp can beat a few hundred hp which to me is an obvious point so why spend the money to demonstrate it? It didn't matter that it was a Supra; it could have been a Kia or any car with 1200 hp. But he had this look on his face like he thought he's awesomely superior because he drives a Supra too.

People are willing to spend all kinds of money and time "buying" an ego boost and then brag as though it's their brand of car that's superior. Right now the SS Camaro and the 2011 Mustang as tested by the magazines are dead even. When the difference is only a tenth or two in 1/4 mile times, that's driver variable. The 60 ft time alone determines that and that's very highly subject to the driver.

People complain about the cost of road racing or autocross but compared to the thousands they spend on hp and traction so they can have a few seconds of excitement at the drag strip... those thousands spent would cover months of the other two styles of racing, and most of that would be for tires.

But of course money doesn't buy you a win on a road course or autocross and that may be why you see so few here interested in it. They have to actually modify themselves first; their skill and experience. This takes time and probably falls into the category of exercising and losing weight; people may "intend" to but just don't quite get around to being able to actually do it. And you certainly don't get an ego boost plowing off a corner because you didn't take it right.

From my experience and observation, 1/4 milers race with their egos. Road course and autocross drivers are more about the challenge; them and their machine against the track. And they know full well that at any second on any corner they can go from hero to zero so losing is COMPLETELY about them and their skill; paying attention, focusing....it's all about driver performance. If you win, the driver gets the praise and rightly so. In 1/4 mile racing it seems it's the car that's praised because basically that's the truth; he who has the most money to buy hp and traction, wins. The magazines always compare the cars in a 1/4 mile test; never the driver and it's as though there is no driver when you read their "results" such as "Mustang Beats Camaro".

I love road racing. I love being on the track because it's such a pure experience. When you're on the track your mind is clear of EVERYTHING else and you're whole focus is on what you're doing. You're aware of every little sound, every ounce of feedback coming from your car. You FEEL the road in your mind; your attention, your brain, your thoughts accelerate to match and exceed your speed so you can be ahead of where you're going in order to control it once you get there because if you wait until you're there to think about it, it's too late.

Unfortunately I'm now getting too old to race like I'd really want to but man what a blast.

I completely understand your point. BUT, maybe you're mixing a few assumptions with some analytical thinking that's gone way out into left field. It could be as simple as you and quite a few others loving the excitement and adrenaline rush of road course racing and quite a few other people that prefer 1/4 mile racing to what you prefer, which is road course racing.

[Sax1031]

I am just going off the numbers that have been posted by owners.

With a 198lb driver and full tank of gas one 2011 GT weighted in at 3,824lbs.

[1bad65]

Instead of arguing over the car's weight, why not just go to Ford's Mustang website and see what they say it weighs?

[Doc]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

I completely understand your point. BUT, maybe you're mixing a few assumptions with some analytical thinking that's gone way out into left field. It could be as simple as you and quite a few others loving the excitement and adrenaline rush of road course racing and quite a few other people that prefer 1/4 mile racing to what you prefer, which is road course racing.

Not sure what you think I said, but nothing in my post said anything about what people enjoy. In fact based on this thread only dms and I seem to be into road racing while everybody else is talking about 1/4 mile. Of course everybody enjoys what they're doing or they wouldn't be doing it.

My point which may have gotten lost in the verbage was that 1/4 mile racing typically compares car against car which is a function of horsepower and traction in a 1/4 mile race. Saying that one make or model of car is "better" than the other because it won in a 1/4 race just seems silly to me. It's purely a matter of who has the most money to buy hp and traction and once you're at that point it makes no difference what make or model the car is. It was the hp and traction that won.

Do people enjoy doing it? Sure, that's why they spend the money on it but there's really no reason to argue or have hard feelings towards one another over it. It's just money and mods.

Road course and autocross is MUCH more demanding on the driver and the "thrill" lasts longer, and to me that's a lot more satisfying than spending tens of thousands for a few seconds of thrill. I'm sure dms would probably agree with me but that's just 2 of us against the tide in here lol.

[RobH]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I am just going off the numbers that have been posted by owners.

With a 198lb driver and full tank of gas one 2011 GT weighted in at 3,824lbs.

How much does the 3900lb Camaro weigh with the 198lb driver and a full tank of gas? 4200lbs or more?

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Doc

It's purely a matter of who has the most money to buy hp and traction and once you're at that point it makes no difference what make or model the car is. It was the hp and traction that won.

But by that logic wouldn't the guy with the most money to buy better tires and suspension mods, etc be the one that usually wins on a road course?

FYI, part of the thrill of 1/4 mile racing (at least for me) is seeing the other car right next to yours before and during the race. On a road course you take turns and see who has the better time, correct? To me, that takes away the 'head to head' thrill.

[JusticePete]

There are exceptions to every rule, but this one is generally dead nuts on. What makes a car go fast -- MONEY.