YOU MUST READ!!!!

[JMROD]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

to me, those that complain about having to pay taxes for services they choose not to use are the source of their own problems. The private school promoters are generally the worst. They send their kids to a 'better' school since the public ones are so terrible. Then they complain that their taxes are paying for education that their kids aren't reciving. And whose fault is that? THEY put thier kids in the private school, not the government, not the average citizen. So why should everyone else pay more because you elected to not use services provided to you?

Im sorry but after reading this again I just had to comment. This statement seems to have an inherent logical contradiction. Not to be rude but I think you need to read over what you wrote and think about the logic.

Ill just make two points.

As a parent do I not have the right and the responsiblity to provide my kids with the highest quality education I can possibly give them? So as you said since the public system is so terrible wouldnt it make sense to send them to a private school that is proven better? I think thats what a parent who cares would at least TRY and do.

Who wouldnt want to use a school system that they are already paying for? Who would want to spend more money just because?

[TAG UR IT]

Boy, did this get waaaaaaay off topic. Good post JMROD. Most problems do begin in the home.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Boy, did this get waaaaaaay off topic.

understatement

[DGthe3]

You brought up some good points. The real problems with the educational system (at least in Canada, probably much the same for the US) is that there is too much upper management that does nothing but collect large paychecks. The teachers at the bottom get more or less the same pay no matter how much effort they put into the job. Therefore eventually many just stop carring like anyone else would in such a position. They can get away with this because it is very difficult to fire an experienced teacher when they are doing a poor job. I know all this because both my parents are teachers and I have heard these gripes for practically all my life.

These problems are actually the same ones in almost any unionized work force, big three automakers included. If it were possible to 'trim the fat' and keep only the useful and effective people, the quality would go up and the cost would go down. People who love their job rarely demand pay increases, since working for them the cliche of 'work is its own reward' generally hold true. Sure they have to be compensated for the work they do, but its not the paycheck that keeps them there. At least that's what they told me in business class. Seems to make sense to me. On the other hand, if you're there because you don't have to do much anything and know you can't get fired you will stay and just be a drain on funding. Think of how many classrooms there must be that are full of students that don't care about learning with a teacher that doesn't care about teaching?

[Mr. Wyndham]

I plan on becoming a teacher, but for this reason, I picked a subject matter that I really love. That way, I won't be teaching something I really could care less about, and I can pass on my enthusiasm for the subject onto the students.

There are WAY too many teachers that should have retired long ago, but they stay for the benifits packages(the crotchety I-hate-children ones); then there are those tachers who put 150% in, and don't get recognised.

One of my Tech teachers told me a story, that he had given up his lunch period to help a kid on his wood project. The kid wasn't there, but that was the understanding, Mr. B was going to do a few things for the kid. Well, he's sanding with one hand, and with the other, he's eating his sandwich. He turned to his collegue, who shares a room with him, and said "and they think we get paid to much..."

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by JMROD

Who wouldnt want to use a school system that they are already paying for? Who would want to spend more money just because?

Thats the point that i was trying to get at. Anyone that wants to give their children a private education, by all means do so. You are free to do that. But you always have the option to use the 'free' system, in fact you are expected to do so. Just like you are expected to drink tap water not bottled.

Also, my statement about the public schools being terrible was the promoters of private education believe, not my personal one. I should have clarified that in my original post, sorry.

[JMROD]

Ok I understand it a bit more.

Could you understand why the "private school promoters" still have the right to complain? First, freedom of speech. Really though, If they didnt care to have a school tax to begin with then they rightfully have grounds to not have to pay the tax. Especially when they think the system is flawed. But we where all born into this tax whether we want it or not so we are stuck unless we change it.

Shouldn't it be my choice to select a school for my kids (or their choice) and should it not be MY choice whether I want to pay into a system I dont use? Thats where the "complaining" comes from the private school poeple.

This is really a fundamental difference between the "right" and "left" ways of thinking.

BTW, I dont have kids yet.

Anyway this topic has really gone off tangents but in a good way! Its good mental stimulation since there has not recently been any big news on the Camaro.

One thing I think we all agree on, we want us a New Camaro!

[SSMUFF]

Aww did everyone read that Buick joined Lexas for being the top ranked reliable car?? JD POWER & ASSOC.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by JMROD

Ok I understand it a bit more.

Could you understand why the "private school promoters" still have the right to complain? First, freedom of speech. Really though, If they didnt care to have a school tax to begin with then they rightfully have grounds to not have to pay the tax. Especially when they think the system is flawed. But we where all born into this tax whether we want it or not so we are stuck unless we change it.

Shouldn't it be my choice to select a school for my kids (or their choice) and should it not be MY choice whether I want to pay into a system I dont use? Thats where the "complaining" comes from the private school poeple.

This is really a fundamental difference between the "right" and "left" ways of thinking.

BTW, I dont have kids yet.

Anyway this topic has really gone off tangents but in a good way! Its good mental stimulation since there has not recently been any big news on the Camaro.

One thing I think we all agree on, we want us a New Camaro!

So, is it still on topic if we mention the camaro in the post? lol. Yes we all agree that we want a camaro, regardless of our way of thinking, be it left, right, or wrong.
back off topic . . .

I might be off on some of the details here, if I am wrong on my assumption than ignore my argument. . . everthing I am stating is based on the assumption that water is supplied municipally, the treatment, pumping, and storage locations are funded through taxes. Therefore, everyone pays for it and it is availible to everyone. Some people choose (and they have every right to make this choice) to drink bottled water. Some may even go so far as to brush their teeth with it, wash their hands, their dishes, etc. Thats getting pretty far out there, I'll admit, but bear with me. Lets take it to the extreme and say that all the water that they consume in their home for any purpose is bottled.

Do they still need to pay for the public water system? Yes they do because there are many other indirect ways that they make use of the municipal water supply. From production facilities to public institutions to business. In all such cases they consume water and you make use of their services. You aren't always using water directly from them (except in the case of the fire department maybe) but in many cases they could hardly function without the municipal water system. Now how much more obvious is this when it is education and not water?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by SSMUFF

Aww did everyone read that Buick joined Lexas for being the top ranked reliable car?? JD POWER & ASSOC.

Wow, buick and not Caddy? I find that surprising, but still its great to hear

[AirGoya]

thank you! lets jump on this topic

[Mr. Wyndham]

Gm has been working very hard on Saturn and Buick, as they were the "forgotten" brands. They're really pushing for Brand Differentiation. No more re-badged cars across the brands.

So, as a result, the Saturn Aura won the NACOTY(North American Car Of The Year) award, and now Buick has pulled ahead to "Lexus"

[Mr. Wyndham]

2007 Vehicle Dependability Study Results

Home > Articles > 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study Results
J.D. Power and Associates Names Award Recipients Based on Consumer Satisfaction with 2004 Model Year Vehicle Dependability
At 6 a.m., the shrill little alarm clock that you’ve threatened to throw out the window on so many Monday mornings demands your attention in its aggravating, incessant manner, dragging you, kicking and screaming, from spending the first ten-mil you just won in a dream Lotto drawing. Roused from slumber, you slam your palm on the shrill little alarm clock and begrudgingly roll out of bed to start the day. An hour later, showered, dressed, and with the kids in tow, you head out to the family car. Once everything is securely packed and your loved ones are secured by seat belts, you twist the key in the ignition. Nothing. You try again. Nada. You try one more time. Zippo. Next, the kids learn some new language.
Who has time for a car that isn’t dependable? Our harried lifestyles—gotta get here, gotta get there—demand that our choices in vehicles ensure the fewest breakdowns possible. Of course, it’s up to vehicle owners to maintain their vehicles properly because any car, truck, SUV, or van will break if basic maintenance is ignored. However, the fact remains that some makes and models perform better than others when it comes to long-term dependability.
Each year, the J.D. Power and Associates Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS)SM surveys original owners of three-year-old vehicles about problems they have experienced in the prior 12 months. Our VDS is different from the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS)SM, which measures quality after the first 90 days of ownership when the vehicle is new. Rather, VDS surveys original owners of three-year-old vehicles about problems experienced during the year leading up to the survey. This year’s VDS is based upon responses from over 53,000 verified vehicle owners and, based on this consumer feedback, awards are given to top models in 19 vehicle segments.
Key findings of the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study include:

• For the first time since 1993, Lexus is not alone as the top-ranked nameplate. This year, Buick ties with Lexus as the most dependable nameplate according to survey respondents. Cadillac, Mercury, and Honda round out the top five rank positions, respectively.
• Compared to last year’s study, the most improved nameplate in the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study is Hummer. Note, however, that for 2007, VDS measures only the H2—the only Hummer model widely available for the 2004 model year. Audi, Jeep, Volvo, Subaru and Land Rover also make significant gains, though despite its improvement, Land Rover is still the lowest ranked brand in the study.
• Mazda’s dependability performance declined more than any other brand this year, mainly due to consumer-reported problems with the RX-8 sports car and Mazda 3 compact, the latter having replaced the high-scoring Protégé for 2004.
• The most improved model in the study is the Audi A6. The model that saw the largest decline is the Dodge Intrepid.
• In terms of new car sales, Japanese-branded models dominate the Detroit 3. But when it comes to dependability, models from General Motors and Ford receive the highest rankings in the midsize and large car segments, where the Crown Victoria and the Buick Century receive awards. Scion and Honda build the highest-ranked small cars, according to the study.
  
• In terms of new truck sales, the Detroit 3 dominate the Japanese nameplates. But when it comes to dependability, consumers say that Toyota Motor Corporation is building the highest-ranked pickups and multi-activity vehicles with the exception of the midsize MAV segment, in which the Oldsmobile Bravada ranks highest.
• Of the measured attributes in the study, consumer satisfaction with dependability in the areas of engines, and features and controls, show the greatest year-over-year gains. Satisfaction with interiors deteriorates a bit this year.
• A jump in initial quality as measured in the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS)SM is mirrored three years later in the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study, showing that IQS is a good indicator of how a vehicle will perform with regard to long-term quality.

Regardless of whether or not you choose to purchase a vehicle rated highly by respondents to the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study, when buying a used car, it’s always a good idea to:

• Run a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) check. A VIN check service such as Carfax can help you identify potential problems by reviewing the title and service history of a vehicle.
• Have an ASE-certified mechanic inspect the car. A qualified mechanic can find signs of abuse, previous repair work, accident damage or flood evidence better than most consumers can.
• Look for signs that the car was poorly maintained. People who don’t maintain their homes, yards or appearance with care are also unlikely to maintain their cars with care. Also, ask the owner to provide service records for the vehicle.
• All four tires should match in terms of brand, model, and size, and they should not show abnormal wear. The engine oil should be a clean amber color rather than a dirty brown or black. The condition of the seats, carpets, steering wheel and pedals should match what the odometer reads: the higher the mileage, the more evident the wear on these items. If you see lots of evidence of wear but low miles on the odometer, stay away!
• During the test drive, the car should be free of odd mechanical smells and sounds; burning smells, squealing sounds, and grinding during braking are serious warning signs. Also, the vehicle should not pull to one side, should not vibrate or shake when driving on the highway, and should not exhibit excessive suspension motion or bottoming out.

Read the bolded real, real close!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Gm has been working very hard on Saturn and Buick, as they were the "forgotten" brands. They're really pushing for Brand Differentiation. No more re-badged cars across the brands.

So, as a result, the Saturn Aura won the NACOTY(North American Car Of The Year) award, and now Buick has pulled ahead to "Lexus"

Well thats good that they are trying to seperate the brands. in my opinion, caddies should be more high end than they are now. Let buick move closer to wehre cadilac is sitting now. Saturns should be the ultra-effiecient line and ignore sports cars and suv's. Pontiac is doing well with their sporty/youth image. Hummer and GMC do what they do well enough. And let Chevy just mix it all together