MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[BigEnos]

I would buy a camaro from GM if they built it in Ed Welburn's back yard.

[SQUALO]

Originally Posted by Moose

Absolutely.

Without hesitation.

Y.E.S.

Ditto x infinity

[Foster26]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Let's assume they go Chapter 11 - what will be the (increase/decrease) percentage in sales? Give me a percentage number based on the current market conditions and on how you believe the public will react to this news.

No doubt this would be bad news to the general public and sales would most certainly decrease as a result. However, their biggest problem is not sales, its profitability. They do not have to regain market share that they once had back in the 70's and 80's to be a viable company. They do however have to restore profitability. Simple economics here I know. But, filing C-11-B will allow them to reorganize and get out of ridiculous union contracts that are sucking the life right out of them.

[Rodrunner]

Well, kdbolt70, being an out of touch boomer, this may be way off, but those 1s and 0s, amazing as they are, just can't produce the products we depend on to live our lives each day...clothes, car, food, house, etc. Sure CAD, CAM are widely used in manufacturing today, but even that machinery must too be made by some person. Those industrial giants are still needed. And transition to new technology takes capital, lots of capital. Technology may be changing at light speed, but the practical application of it takes time. So, I guess my point is that industry may not be dragging its feet when it comes to advancement as much as you're being impatient and not giving it the necessary time.
I think your change of major was very wise. You're in a great field - hang in there!!

The girlfriend's old man - asshole!!

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[VICTORY RED 1SS]

Hell ya, even if they gave me all the parts in a crate and I had to build it myself.

There are some of us who value the Camaro well beyond the sum of its parts.

A true Camaro enthusiast knows what I am talking about.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Foster26

No doubt this would be bad news to the general public and sales would most certainly decrease as a result. However, their biggest problem is not sales, its profitability. They do not have to regain market share that they once had back in the 70's and 80's to be a viable company. They do however have to restore profitability. Simple economics here I know. But, filing C-11-B will allow them to reorganize and get out of ridiculous union contracts that are sucking the life right out of them.

Just a forward: I see your points...and get where you're coming from.

But...
#1: Profitability means nothing if you don't have sales. GM isn't a BMW...a small-scale motor company. And they don't have the luxury of sensible people buying from them. Bankruptcy = instant death because nobody besides the most hardcore loyalists will want to buy from them.

#2: There was an article recently showing how simply filing for Chpt. 11 wouldn't be as easy as many people are making it out to seem. It could, and probably would hurt them more than not.

#3: The Union contracts have just been renegotiated to significantly increase their competitive edge....then the economy took a dump. The unions are virtually a non-issue at this point. According to themselves, and various 'experts', the best approach for GM right now is to get cash, and people to buy their cars...

[Bentley78]

im sure my post sounds retarded or lame whatever that guy said but......its not that easy.

You have to understand that this is happening on a global scale, its not like this is 10 years ago and GM is the only company going ch11, sure a rebound would happen and after a few years they are back on track. I dont mean to sound gloomy but there is a very dark storm coming and i hope everyone is prepared, thats all.

[jimbo57]

i want my car

[GoldFire]

Originally Posted by Txturbo

I'd buy two.....imagine the value of a 5th gen Camaro in a couple of years if GM shut down. A low production, new generation car from a defunct company would bring big bucks within a short period of time.

Haha now there is a good point. Screw investing in the market, I'll invest in the Camaro!

[dieseldave24v]

I just wanted to say YES again

[Foster26]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Just a forward: I see your points...and get where you're coming from.

But...
#1: Profitability means nothing if you don't have sales. GM isn't a BMW...a small-scale motor company. And they don't have the luxury of sensible people buying from them. Bankruptcy = instant death because nobody besides the most hardcore loyalists will want to buy from them.

#2: There was an article recently showing how simply filing for Chpt. 11 wouldn't be as easy as many people are making it out to seem. It could, and probably would hurt them more than not.

#3: The Union contracts have just been renegotiated to significantly increase their competitive edge....then the economy took a dump. The unions are virtually a non-issue at this point. According to themselves, and various 'experts', the best approach for GM right now is to get cash, and people to buy their cars...

I think we are more in agreement than not. I said I thought profitability is their biggest problem, not their only. No doubt they need sales in order to improve economies of scale. However, I don't see any significant growth for them that could allow them to become profitable anytime soon. The fact is, it aint gonna happen so they need to focus on profitability. Sales will only dwindle to nothing if they cease to exist. This being said, I cannot wait to get my Camaro so I can push everyone I know to buy GM, if not them at least American. I will do all that I can to help them by being an advocate of their product. I think this Camaro will be such a bargain, high performance people in the market to buy would be stupid to ignore it.

[xl1200r]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

But...
#1: Profitability means nothing if you don't have sales. GM isn't a BMW...a small-scale motor company. And they don't have the luxury of sensible people buying from them. Bankruptcy = instant death because nobody besides the most hardcore loyalists will want to buy from them.

Kind of like how all those airlines filed Chapter 11 and everyone thought nobody would fly with them for fears of cost cutting in safety items like inspections and repairs? Oh, wait... it never happened that way. And I don't think the commercial airline industry is full of hardcore loyalist consumers.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by xl1200r

Kind of like how all those airlines filed Chapter 11 and everyone thought nobody would fly with them for fears of cost cutting in safety items like inspections and repairs? Oh, wait... it never happened that way. And I don't think the commercial airline industry is full of hardcore loyalist consumers.

Exactly...because it's an entirely different Industry. You're not spending $20,000-$30,000 on a product you expect to break and be repaired under a warranty per flight, are you?......

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by xl1200r

Kind of like how all those airlines filed Chapter 11 and everyone thought nobody would fly with them for fears of cost cutting in safety items like inspections and repairs? Oh, wait... it never happened that way. And I don't think the commercial airline industry is full of hardcore loyalist consumers.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Exactly...because it's an entirely different Industry. You're not spending $20,000-$30,000 on a product you expect to break and be repaired under a warranty per flight, are you?......

+1 - Do you really think people care about buying something that they will use in a week for a few hundred dollars vs. something they pay huge dollars for and use for at least 5 years? Companies don't make any money from only serving hardcore loyalists.