MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[City Chevrolet]

Sorry to switch it up a bit and I agree with the buying US made vs others, but this is also another issue here.


This current economy and people hearing and listening to, and totally believing anything that comes out on TV news or the papers is what is hurting us. Twice today I had potential clients that gave me the old.. "I don't know with the economy and all.." It is kinda hard to argue someone when they are talking about their finances and jobs when I have no idea what it is, so I never really press the matter, but like I heard from Dave Ramsey, "This market may be a roller coaster, but remember this, the only way you can get hurt on a roller coaster is by jumping off"


What I am trying to say is, that when everyone jumps off the train, well it further compounds everything and is one of the reasons GM and the rest are where they are. I am not even talking about all the other things people are "putting off" because of the economy... the more you put off, the worse it gets. Don't get me wrong, some of us (I know I am) are really being affected and it is scary... Maybe someone sees my point or maybe I am just venting.. either way people, don't stop doing what you have been and buy American... and.. um.. AC/DC Rocks!

[UCF w00t]

As someone who recently graduated from college, I have to agree and disagree.

Yes, there's lots of kids out there who just want a handout. But also, there's a lot out there who are ready to work for what they want. I've been working since I was 16, etc. Had to do chores around the house and didn't get paid for it (I got a roof over my head as my folks said). I have friends who fit in both camps but really, I think when it comes to it, they'll buckle down and get work done. The problem is people have let them get away with slacking off they expect it to continue. When it doesn't, they're perfectly capable of stepping it up just as every generation in the past. And every generation thinks that the next generation has it easy. It's part of progress. Our lives SHOULD be easier than the previous generation's.

So, moral of the story, don't give up on the kids coming out of school these days. Some are ready to work for their money.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Funny, I never realized that we were neighbors (Buffalo)... Where in this area did you find hats US made? Just a fluke?

The Park Ave Coat Factory on Rt. 5 across from the windmills. Not entirely sure if it was a fluke or not...I didn't really look around to see where the other stuff was made. (probably should, now that I think about it....)

Originally Posted by City Chevrolet

This current economy and people hearing and listening to, and totally believing anything that comes out on TV news or the papers is what is hurting us.

That's another issue...Geeze.....

I swear, we need to compile a big list of stupid contributing factors...come up with a proposed solution, and send an emmisary to washington. Wouldn't that be something: "Camaro Website members seeks solution to country's troubles."

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

As someone who recently graduated from college, I have to agree and disagree.

Yes, there's lots of kids out there who just want a handout. But also, there's a lot out there who are ready to work for what they want. I've been working since I was 16, etc. Had to do chores around the house and didn't get paid for it (I got a roof over my head as my folks said). I have friends who fit in both camps but really, I think when it comes to it, they'll buckle down and get work done. The problem is people have let them get away with slacking off they expect it to continue. When it doesn't, they're perfectly capable of stepping it up just as every generation in the past. And every generation thinks that the next generation has it easy. It's part of progress. Our lives SHOULD be easier than the previous generation's.

So, moral of the story, don't give up on the kids coming out of school these days. Some are ready to work for their money.

I couldn't agree more. It is the select elites who think they are entitled to megabuck jobs that ruin the perception for the rest of us.

My daughter is a prime exanmple of what is right when you have your head on straight. She worked her tail off to get through school and struggled to get a Job teaching. She is currently working in an Inner City school for underprivileged kids in a city North of Chicago. She is without a doubt a hero in my eyes!~ We need more commited people like that who want to make a difference and work hard at what they do!

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

As someone who recently graduated from college, I have to agree and disagree.

Yes, there's lots of kids out there who just want a handout. But also, there's a lot out there who are ready to work for what they want. I've been working since I was 16, etc. Had to do chores around the house and didn't get paid for it (I got a roof over my head as my folks said). I have friends who fit in both camps but really, I think when it comes to it, they'll buckle down and get work done. The problem is people have let them get away with slacking off they expect it to continue. When it doesn't, they're perfectly capable of stepping it up just as every generation in the past. And every generation thinks that the next generation has it easy. It's part of progress. Our lives SHOULD be easier than the previous generation's.

I disagree only because we expect to live better than the previous generation. We SHOULD have to work harder because of it. Do you live in a nicer house than you grew up in? I do. Do you drive nicer cars than your parents did at your age? I do. And the list goes on. If you want to live as your parents did then I agree with you.

So, moral of the story, don't give up on the kids coming out of school these days. Some are ready to work for their money.

I don't disagree with that statement; in fact I think most are ready to work for their money. Problem is what they consider "money" and what the employers consider "money". The pay expectations from one side to the other have a growing gap. Not to mention that the "kids" today aren't getting into the trades. That's a HUGE problem.

Originally Posted by greenrail

I couldn't agree more. It is the select elites who think they are entitled to megabuck jobs that ruin the perception for the rest of us.

My daughter is a prime example of what is right when you have your head on straight. She worked her tail off to get through school and struggled to get a Job teaching. She is currently working in an Inner City school for underprivileged kids in a city North of Chicago. She is without a doubt a hero in my eyes!~ We need more commited people like that who want to make a difference and work hard at what they do!

I couldn't agree with you more; good for her. I can empathize with her "plight"; my wife teaches 6th grade in an inner-city Buffalo school. That being said, it still pisses me off that she gets 10 weeks off in the summer...

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

As someone who recently graduated from college, I have to agree and disagree.

Yes, there's lots of kids out there who just want a handout. But also, there's a lot out there who are ready to work for what they want. I've been working since I was 16, etc. Had to do chores around the house and didn't get paid for it (I got a roof over my head as my folks said). I have friends who fit in both camps but really, I think when it comes to it, they'll buckle down and get work done. The problem is people have let them get away with slacking off they expect it to continue. When it doesn't, they're perfectly capable of stepping it up just as every generation in the past. And every generation thinks that the next generation has it easy. It's part of progress. Our lives SHOULD be easier than the previous generation's.

So, moral of the story, don't give up on the kids coming out of school these days. Some are ready to work for their money.

As a fellow graduate I certainly agree! Though, the older generation has a leg to stand on, as many of my peers have little motivation to make something of themselves. I know many kids I went to highschool with are now mowing lawns or shoveling snow for $15/hr and they are happy with their situation. Live at their parents, they can afford all the beer they want, and they hit the bars every weekend. I think that's fine if that's what you want to aspire too.

But there are some of us that have a fire under our butts. Some of us do what it takes to be "successful". Some of us have the motivation our parents had to work hard to get a good job, and shine once you've secured that job; to support yourself, your family, and your happiness. (and a 2SS )

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

As someone who recently graduated from college, I have to agree and disagree.

Yes, there's lots of kids out there who just want a handout. But also, there's a lot out there who are ready to work for what they want. I've been working since I was 16, etc. Had to do chores around the house and didn't get paid for it (I got a roof over my head as my folks said). I have friends who fit in both camps but really, I think when it comes to it, they'll buckle down and get work done. The problem is people have let them get away with slacking off they expect it to continue. When it doesn't, they're perfectly capable of stepping it up just as every generation in the past. And every generation thinks that the next generation has it easy. It's part of progress. Our lives SHOULD be easier than the previous generation's.

So, moral of the story, don't give up on the kids coming out of school these days. Some are ready to work for their money.

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

As a fellow graduate I certainly agree! Though, the older generation has a leg to stand on, as many of my peers have little motivation to make something of themselves. I know many kids I went to highschool with are now mowing lawns or shoveling snow for $15/hr and they are happy with their situation. Live at their parents, they can afford all the beer they want, and they hit the bars every weekend. I think that's fine if that's what you want to aspire too.

But there are some of us that have a fire under our butts. Some of us do what it takes to be "successful". Some of us have the motivation our parents had to work hard to get a good job, and shine once you've secured that job; to support yourself, your family, and your happiness. (and a 2SS )

Simple question (don't mean to pry), what did you take in college? What's your degree and/or practical experience?

[GTAHVIT]

I will say this, in fairness to the good students I have had. Almost without fail my "A" students just want a chance. They seem to understand that once they get in the door they will get the opportunity to succeed. And that goes for students of all backgrounds.

[scotchsride09]

I think the thing that upsets me the most about this is the way people are treating the bailout request by the Big 3. I understand we all feel like we got burned by Wall Street but people just don't see how different the car makers are. I just read this article off of reddit:

http://www.unknownnews.org/0811-11.html#MAF110935

"If we bail out the car companies then our economy
has turned from a tragedy into a farce

by Mahdi Abdul Finkelstein

We heard on CNBC this morning from Auto Nation that nothing is selling, not even Toyota or Honda. So how does a "bridge loan" of $25 or $50 billion to the Big Three automakers solve the problem if they are each burning through $7 billion of cash per quarter?

The reality of the bailout proposal is that it is a prayer -- a prayer that the yen does this, the dollar does that, the infrastructure does the other thing, and soon Americans will be buying lots of cars (...with borrowed money, because how many people have $30K cash for a car anyway?)

Just a few months ago people were selling the SUVs dirt cheap because of the high price of gas. Unless I miss my guess there is a huge inventory of low-mileage, high-quality used vehicles out there for sale... cheap.

Add it all up and a bailout now means bailing out GM, Ford and Chrysler again in 2009 with even more money! Don't imagine that their CEOs wouldn't bury their pride and ask for heaping plates of second helpings, either.

If we bail out the car companies then our economy has turned from a tragedy into a farce. And I hope we're ready when the US government credit lines run dry... because WTF happens then?

Mahdi Abdul Finkelstein"

And it pissed me off, so I stole some of Scott's info from earlier in the thread and responded in the comments with this:

"OMG.... MORONS!

I've said this on other threads and I'll say it again here: do people not realize how MUCH of our economy is tied up in these corporations??? By saving them, you are saving jobs, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of jobs. If the Big 3 fold; so does everything else they have their hands in. I don't think people realize that includes dealerships, repair shops, parts manufacturers, suppliers, and any other directives for which they are the major purchaser or provider.

I think the thing that annoys me the most about this article is the "used cars for cheap everywhere because people are selling their gas guzzling SUV's". Ok; so; people are going to buy those used cars because the Big 3 went under... the same used cars no one can afford now; when things are ten times worse than they are now? And... used cars don't last forever... so when people want NEW cars, you're going to have every American who buys a new car ship even more of our money overseas; out of the country...

The Big 3 aren't 100's of banks out to screw people; they're companies that have far deeper roots in our economies than we realize.

Not to mention... the bailout money would be used to sustain business so that they can keep researching alternative fuels and energy sources. GM is already doing everything they can to cut back on costs so believe me, you won't catch their higher-ups with Wall Street bonuses and resort conferences. No, they want to survive. And they deserve to.

Chevy makes more vehicles with fuel economy over 30 mpg's than any other car company, btw. So there goes that excuse.

And no, I don't work for any of them, I just think people don't realize what will happen if they go away."

It makes my blood boil... I want to track down this Finkelstein person and

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Simple question (don't mean to pry), what did you take in college? What's your degree and/or practical experience?

Computer Engineering. I had lots of practical experience before I even started college and got my first internship as many of the things I now do for my job I did when I was in middle and high school for fun. My parents were constantly bitching saying "get off the damn computer" (which I ignored heh) and it eventually paid off and got me a good paying job. I'm now in IT systems engineering.

[DGthe3]

I took engineering and I couldn't find a place that would hire me so after a couple months of searching, they all wanted someone with experience. I went back to the firm I was working at last summer. Its not the area of engineering that I want but I get lots of experience and a paycheck. In the spring one of my friends was saying he won't take a job for less than $50 000, average pay for new grads in that field is ~$40 000. To the best of my knowledge he still doesn't have a job.

[Hesh]

I fully understand the B.S. of younger people that complain about what they have. I work with quite a few. They are recieving handouts and working the system all the while complaining that the $50,000+ job a year we work is shitty and "they arent going to work here forever". They stand around do very little work, but expect when they get out of school that they are going to get a better job and make more money when they dont work at the one they have now. My comment to them is you better apply at 2 different jobs because the way you work the first ones going to fire you. They have the mentallity that they are owed and that just pisses me off. When did it become you were owed anything in life. You either work for it or it goes to the people that do. I work as a mechanic for public transportion. This job is the most B.S. job I have ever worked in my life. I have had to work my ass off in other jobs as a mechanic and do twice the work for half the pay. Some of the idiots I work with dont understand this is the easiest job that they will ever have. Since we are a non-profit organization there is not alot of expectations. Show up do your job and go home. Its straight pay no flag hours like when I worked as a automechanic. You do a preventive mantience program that is set up to follow the little book they give you to finish the required jobs. There are no timestandards saying you have to do a required amount in a set amount of time. Just show up and do something. Its unreal that they complain about this!!! To them the manual labor part of it is below them and they are better than manual labor. Sorry to rant but I work with lazy people alot that do half the work and all the complaining. Most of them are between 20-28 that are the problems. We do have a few older than that but most are between these ages. Some wonder what is wrong with the U.S. today and part of it goes to this mentallity here...Im Owed. You arent owed jack and or shit, either work or go home no one is gonna give you a handout....End of my rant.

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

hmmmmmmmmmmmm........no one is forcing anyone to do anything of the sort.

We CAN provide the best products -- and many many many surveys show that we do.



I'm not telling you to buy GM -- but I AM asking you to consider GM -- and if you don't then please favor Ford or Chrysler for your transportation needs. (and yes, I note you drive a Neon - and I'm pleased it isn't a Honda or a Toyota!!!)

Let me say first off, I am a GM man. Both grandfathers and my father worked at Harrison's (now Delphi) in Lockport, NY. I grew up with all GM's and probably will stay that way. I think the problem with what your saying is this. For 20 years, GM vehicles were crappy. Execs didn't care about what consumers wanted. The build quality was terrible, materials were cheaper than vietnam hooker. They made shitty cars and they expected people to continue to buy their cars because they didn't forsee competition actually hurting them. Thought they were too big and people would always buy from GM first. Turned out they were wrong. I think GM is paying the price not for the last 5-10 years, but for the 20 years prior to that. GM cars and trucks have gotten a lot better from the mid to late 90's to now. But worst thing for GM is this. It is much much harder to gain a customer back that you lost, than it is to keep an existing customer or gain someone new to the market. To regain a customer that you lost for reasons of poor quality, poor value, poor resale, etc., you have to spend (cannot remember the exact #'s) approx 3 times as much than to keep that customer in the first place. GM is at a point now, where they must spend tons on marketing and ads to try to reattract customers that they lost. Its not about patriotism or buying American made, although I want to thank Fbodfather for pointing out all the Chevys that they build in the U.S. It's about getting a product that has quality. Like Fbod said, they still get people asking for the oldmobiles at auto shows, they're are still a lot of people that think GM cars are still what they were from the late 70's to the mid to late 90's. So even though their current product line is very good, and very competitive. There are a lot of people who were turned of to GM's and other domestics, that have yet to be won back. It will take a lot of effort, and they may not ever come back. Its not because their unpatriotic or unamerican, its GM reaping what they sowed the last 20 years.

That being said. I will continue to buy GM now, because I know they now make a good, quality, reliable, competitive car again. And I cannot wait to get my Camaro and later, the Volt.

P.S. I am in a bit of the same boat. I get out of college, I have a lot of education and some experience. Most places want someone with more experience. Doesn't 5 years of studying that field count for anything. Come on, companies want too much. Guess what I can learn on the job. They want my age, education, but someone with 2-4 years of experience. That person doesn't exist. And its great for my to have shelled out all this money for the education they require, but do they want to pay me what that education is worth to them, Hell no.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

For 20 years, GM vehicles were crappy. Execs didn't care about what consumers wanted. The build quality was terrible, materials were cheaper than vietnam hooker. They made shitty cars and they expected people to continue to buy their cars because they didn't forsee competition actually hurting them.

I am not making a point for or against any auto-related "bail out". But just for arguments sake let's say that any other company in just about any other field ignored customers wants and produced a total piece of shit. How long would they still be in business? 20 years? 10 years? 1?