MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[josh1147]

WOW....I go TDY for a couple days and the board explodes with comments! It's impossible to not feel the "passion" everyone has about this topic. If I remember correctly, GM announced that the WENTZVILLE facility was on the "hit list". As a resident here in the St. Louis Metro area I am positive it will impact the already rough economy here. St. Louis has also recently been impacted by the Chrysler plant shutdown.

Maybe it's time for the UAW leadership to wake up and see how their policies negatively impact their industry?? I've scraped and clawed my way over the past 15 years to where I am without unions, I've dealt with poor management, I've negotiated my wages and benefits, and I am DAMN HAPPY that I did it myself....and yes I've learned many lessons the hard way but feel that I'm a better MAN and employee because of those experiences.

The general population also needs to stop whining, stop expecting entitlements/handouts/bailouts, and go back to the policy that made the United States what it is today....boot-strap yourself!

A little fiscal responsibility by each of us would go a LONG way to help in resolving this current crisis. I will be buying my Camaro with cash....but that is only because I have scraped, saved, and penny-pinched to be able to do so.

I wish my fellow Americans and our Corporate employers the best as we ALL struggle through this together.

[StoutFiles]

Why thank you for that massive generalization...my father has a bachelor's degree in economics. He was laid off from Norwood multiple times. Then GM shut the plant down. Luckily he was able to transfer up the highway to Delphi, but look what happened there...

Oh yes. He worked hard all right. So hard that it sent him to the hospital twice. Yet he still ended up having to take early retirement earlier than he wanted to.

Sorry to hear that. I was talking about the majority.

And Scott's right, Dayton is going to go into economic crisis mode the minute Moraine is shut down.

1100 jobs will be lost in an already poor job location. Dayton is very quickly dying.

[Design1stCode2nd]

And some of this has to do with location. The middle of the country will be hit the hardest as it has always had an industrial base. Job security is not in manufacturing, hasn't been for years. For those in Ohio, Michigan, illinois and other states you may have to move to find work. I know my father had to do that several times when I was growing up.

Luckily I have a job that can't be outsourced and unlikely to be downsized and for that I'm grateful.

Almost anyone coming out of college today is going to face hardships in getting a job. When I graduated the economy was bad and I had to take whatever I could get.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd

And some of this has to do with location. The middle of the country will be hit the hardest as it has always had an industrial base. Job security is not in manufacturing, hasn't been for years. For those in Ohio, Michigan, illinois and other states you may have to move to find work. I know my father had to do that several times when I was growing up.

Luckily I have a job that can't be outsourced and unlikely to be downsized and for that I'm grateful.

Almost anyone coming out of college today is going to face hardships in getting a job. When I graduated the economy was bad and I had to take whatever I could get.

There are many reasons this country's manufacturing base has left in my little humble opinion. My family has a CNC machine shop here in Buffalo,NY so I know from whence I speak...

First, NAFTA took a shot at us; it was directly responsible for about 20% of our "daily" fill-in work booking to Mexico. While it wasn't by far the most profitable work in our shop, it did necessitate a 2nd shift running. For those in this type of business, you know that once your overhead is covered, work above and beyond that doesn't have to command the "standard" hourly rate to be profitable. Anyways, with the advent of India and China coming on board over the past 15 years, more and more of our work was shipped overseas. They are making finished parts cheaper than we could buy the raw material for in most cases. Labor costs is a huge part of that but so is government subsidies to those companies from my understanding. Those governments are writing 0% loans and in some cases actually buying the machines to put in these facilities.

We simply can't compete against $100 a week in wages and low-cost and/or free equipment. Does that mean the workers here should work for $100 a week? Of course not. It does mean though that our wage structure had to change to remain competitive. It didn't. Here's where we are because of it.

Also, IMO only, there is a totally different breed of graduates coming out of college nowadays. They all want the cushy $100k a year desk jobs (that don't exist anyways). They don't want to have to get their hands dirty like I did, my father did, his father did... That's who's coming out of college now- no one to work in manufacturing.

So, with regards to manufacturing in the US, companies are in trouble because they've lost all the "gravy" work, they're in trouble because they're paying too much to get done what they have, and they can't hire anyone new to fill the gaps. Did I miss anything?

[PsyDoc]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Also, IMO only, there is a totally different breed of graduates coming out of college nowadays. They all want the cushy $100k a year desk jobs (that don't exist anyways). They don't want to have to get their hands dirty like I did, my father did, his father did... That's who's coming out of college now- no one to work in manufacturing.

So, with regards to manufacturing in the US, companies are in trouble because they've lost all the "gravy" work, they're in trouble because they're paying too much to get done what they have, and they can't hire anyone new to fill the gaps. Did I miss anything?

I am a professor at what would be classified as a "medium size" university of close to 12,000 students. In my 10 years at this institution, the majority of students I come into contact with put forth minimal effort and then complain when they get a "C" or "D." Last year, one student was asking me how much she can earn with a Master's degree in psychology. I told her that school counselors are in high demand around the area and can start at mid 40k and then go up pretty quickly. She told me...and I quote: "There is no way I can live on $40,000.00 a year. I need to make at least twice that." My jaw dropped.

I have had many, many students come to me at the end of the semester "wanting" a better grade. I show them their performance on exams, homework assignments, papers, presentations, etc., and ask them why they believe they should get a "B" when they have done "C" work all semester. I am not referring to students who are 0.5% - 1% points away from a better grade. I am referring to students who are 3% - 6% points away, which often equates them being 35 - 45 raw points away. Some of their responses...well...make me sad for the future of our country. Most believe they are "entitled" to the better grade because they paid for the class. When they ask "is there anything I can do" and I ask them whether that would be fair to allow them to do an extra-assignment and not give that opportunity to every student, a few say "no" and walk out of my office. But far too many, in my opinion, tell me that they "won't tell anyone" or "I don't care about their grades, I just want to improve mine."

I "worked" for my dad in the automotive aftermarket in Southern California from about 12 to 26 years old. When I was a kid, he'd make me go with him to take care of defects and returns. He always had me working...whether it was him making me clean up the garage or sweep up the warehouse. As I got older, I was "promoted" so to speak up the chain to the point where I would be making sales calls and presentations during summer vacation...not a vacation for me, though. I'm doing similar things with my two young sons.

6-year-old: "Dad, I want a new Bakugan." (Or pokemon).
Me: "Get a job and pay for it."
6-year-old: "Where to I get a job."
Me: "Right now, from me."
6-year-old: "O.K., I want a job."
Me: "Alright, go out in the back yard and pick up all the pine cones you can see. Then, after you are done with that, rake up the pine straw."
6-year-old: "That's too much. It'll take forever!"
Me: "I guess you don't want the Bakugan bad enough, do you?"
6-year-old: "Where's the rake?"

[GTAHVIT]

I like the way you think.

I'm also an instructor at the AS level. And I will have to say that I find the same scenario. I teach IT related courses and I work in the field. Far too many of them expect it. My favorite quote from a student, "I've never missed a class, I deserve a better grade." My answer, "You didn't do one single homework assignment. You got exactly what you deserved."

[StoutFiles]

Last year, one student was asking me how much she can earn with a Master's degree in psychology. I told her that school counselors are in high demand around the area and can start at mid 40k and then go up pretty quickly. She told me...and I quote: "There is no way I can live on $40,000.00 a year. I need to make at least twice that." My jaw dropped.

There are a lot of people, mostly girls who at first glance seem to be at college for their M.R.S. degree, that somehow assume they'll be making a ton of money right out of college in a saturated field. This current generation is incredibly spoiled and dense in so many ways.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

...This current generation is incredibly spoiled and dense in so many ways.

Someone gets it. Now if the students would only get it.

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

I am a professor at what would be classified as a "medium size" university of close to 12,000 students. In my 10 years at this institution, the majority of students I come into contact with put forth minimal effort and then complain when they get a "C" or "D." Last year, one student was asking me how much she can earn with a Master's degree in psychology. I told her that school counselors are in high demand around the area and can start at mid 40k and then go up pretty quickly. She told me...and I quote: "There is no way I can live on $40,000.00 a year. I need to make at least twice that." My jaw dropped.

I have had many, many students come to me at the end of the semester "wanting" a better grade. I show them their performance on exams, homework assignments, papers, presentations, etc., and ask them why they believe they should get a "B" when they have done "C" work all semester. I am not referring to students who are 0.5% - 1% points away from a better grade. I am referring to students who are 3% - 6% points away, which often equates them being 35 - 45 raw points away. Some of their responses...well...make me sad for the future of our country. Most believe they are "entitled" to the better grade because they paid for the class. When they ask "is there anything I can do" and I ask them whether that would be fair to allow them to do an extra-assignment and not give that opportunity to every student, a few say "no" and walk out of my office. But far too many, in my opinion, tell me that they "won't tell anyone" or "I don't care about their grades, I just want to improve mine."

I "worked" for my dad in the automotive aftermarket in Southern California from about 12 to 26 years old. When I was a kid, he'd make me go with him to take care of defects and returns. He always had me working...whether it was him making me clean up the garage or sweep up the warehouse. As I got older, I was "promoted" so to speak up the chain to the point where I would be making sales calls and presentations during summer vacation...not a vacation for me, though. I'm doing similar things with my two young sons.

6-year-old: "Dad, I want a new Bakugan." (Or pokemon).
Me: "Get a job and pay for it."
6-year-old: "Where to I get a job."
Me: "Right now, from me."
6-year-old: "O.K., I want a job."
Me: "Alright, go out in the back yard and pick up all the pine cones you can see. Then, after you are done with that, rake up the pine straw."
6-year-old: "That's too much. It'll take forever!"
Me: "I guess you don't want the Bakugan bad enough, do you?"
6-year-old: "Where's the rake?"

This PsyDoc, is sadly all too true. My parents taught me you had to work for what you got. I worked my butt off to get through college as my Dad was on disability. I wan't talented athelete and it just worked out that way.

When I got into the transportation industry, I started at the very bottom (Draftsman). Stayed with it, learned as I went along and developed a very rewarding and fulfilling career.

I has paid the bills, provided me with a comfortable living and a wonderful family. It is the core of what our Society is all about. No pretenses, no BS, no chicanery. Just flat out hard work and a commitment to doing the best Job I could possibly do.

No hand outs, no gifts, no deception.

Is everything perfect. Heck no. But I wake up every morning and can honsetly say I am thankful for what I have and the life I have lived.

I would hazard a guess that there are a lot more out there like me.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Something to consider (as I read all those "buy American" threads and the "why, if it's not better?" rebuttles)...

"Free Market". That's the general style of economy we have, I think we can all agree...but -here's the kicker, the brain-hurter, the whatchamacallit-

Does it mean that the system was designed for us to buy the "cheapest" or "best" products? Or does it mean that we are FREE to make a choice as to what we buy?...

Because if it's the latter, and I thoroughly believe it is, then we ought to be putting our money towards what's in our (as a country) best interests. And that thought ought to have priority far and above choosing what's "cheap" or "better". In other words: Buy American/Canadian...support that which supports you -- or we'll all be sorry....


Final thought (in line with what Fbodfather was quoting/saying)
:flag2: <= This Flag means something...and it has nothing to do with YOU...but US...all of us.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by greenrail

This PsyDoc, is sadly all too true. My parents taught me you had to work for what you got. I worked my butt off to get through college as my Dad was on disability. I wan't talented athelete and it just worked out that way.

When I got into the transportation industry, I started at the very bottom (Draftsman). Stayed with it, learned as I went along and developed a very rewarding and fulfilling career.

I has paid the bills, provided me with a comfortable living and a wonderful family. It is the core of what our Society is all about. No pretenses, no BS, no chicanery. Just flat out hard work and a commitment to doing the best Job I could possibly do.

No hand outs, no gifts, no deception.

Is everything perfect. Heck no. But I wake up every morning and can honsetly say I am thankful for what I have and the life I have lived.

I would hazard a guess that there are a lot more out there like me.

There most certainly are; problem is that it's our generation and older not the "kids" coming out of college.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Something to consider (as I read all those "buy American" threads and the "why, if it's not better?" rebuttles)...

"Free Market". That's the general style of economy we have, I think we can all agree...but -here's the kicker, the brain-hurter, the whatchamacallit-

Does it mean that the system was designed for us to buy the "cheapest" or "best" products? Or does it mean that we are FREE to make a choice as to what we buy?...

Because if it's the latter, and I thoroughly believe it is, then we ought to be putting our money towards what's in our (as a country) best interests. And that thought ought to have priority far and above choosing what's "cheap" or "better". In other words: Buy American/Canadian...support that which supports you -- or we'll all be sorry....


Final thought (in line with what Fbodfather was quoting/saying)
:flag2: <= This Flag means something...and it has nothing to do with YOU...but US...all of us.

And just what of the everyday stuff that we buy, clothing, tv's, toaster ovens, etc are still made in the US? THAT'S the problem.

Even Levis jeans haven't been made in the US since 2004...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by trm0002

And just what of the everyday stuff that we buy, clothing, tv's, toaster ovens, etc are still made in the US? THAT'S the problem.

It is.:( But we have a clear choice in the auto market (for the most part)...and if you look...really look (that's the trick) you'll be surprised what's still made here.

For example...I just found some winter hats the other day that said "made in the US"...now they didn't look special or anything...but they were winter hats. I can't tell you how quick I picked those up.

Still, I get your point. And that's where some sort of a domestic manufacturing incentive has to be implimented.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It is.:( But we have a clear choice in the auto market (for the most part)...and if you look...really look (that's the trick) you'll be surprised what's still made here.

For example...I just found some winter hats the other day that said "made in the US"...now they didn't look special or anything...but they were winter hats. I can't tell you how quick I picked those up.

Still, I get your point. And that's where some sort of a domestic manufacturing incentive has to be implimented.

Funny, I never realized that we were neighbors (Buffalo)... Where in this area did you find hats US made? Just a fluke?