Gm needs to bring back the pontiac line

[OrangeFury]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Buick was never on the chopping block due to its runaway success in China. Pontiac's fate was decided well before GM began prepping for bankruptcy.

The RS equipment package will be spread throughout the Chevrolet lineup to provide more sporty exterior styling. Next up after Camaro is Cruze RS. The next-gen Aveo is getting an RS model as well. No need for Pontiac and a whole separate division when Chevrolet can offer the same thing.

I hate to break it to you, but just because you didn't hear about something does not mean it isn't so. I do market research for GM. We were contacted in 2005/2006 to find what the costs associated with moving Buick out of everything we do would be, just as we did when Oldsmobile went away and more recently with Saturn/Saab/Hummer (Pontiac has not been removed as of yet).

They don't do this unless it is basically a done-deal and we were shocked when the plan was scrapped. Trust me, it got much further down the line than a simple rumor.

I'm sorry but I don't see a dressed up Aveo sucking up the void that is left...not by a longshot. I have high hopes for the Cruze, as that will be built in the Lordstown, OH plant where my father works and obviously my financial interests are tied to the sucess of GM, but I have my doubts about that one, too.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Buick was never on the chopping block due to its runaway success in China. Pontiac's fate was decided well before GM began prepping for bankruptcy.

The RS equipment package will be spread throughout the Chevrolet lineup to provide more sporty exterior styling. Next up after Camaro is Cruze RS. The next-gen Aveo is getting an RS model as well. No need for Pontiac and a whole separate division when Chevrolet can offer the same thing.

Sorry...Pontiac's VP and GM found out the morning of the cancellation press conference...and she was shocked!

Buick was saved largely for the Chinese market, where the REAL future of autoselling is...and their "Best of the Corporation" quality numbers. Their total domestic MY 2009 sales were far less than 1/2 of Pontiac's.

Pontiac's quality numbers trail Chev's, which demonstrates how much effort GM put into "saving" Pontiac. Being relegated to "fleet" status was simply GM's public display of lack of commitment...to Pontiac's Brand, its people, and, most injurious, its dedicated clientele who now find themselves "free agents"...

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-.../full/#2811040

It would be an "interesting" study to find out what % of Olds owners, circa 2001, and who have since "upgraded", are still with GM now...

[Dakota Kid]

Originally Posted by comiskeybum

sorry but no. it went away for very good reasons.

+1

[Buffnshine]

should have dropped Buick and kept Pontiac

[AZCamaroFan]

If anyone has seen the coming Regal and it's hot derivatives, Buick is not going to be an old person's car any longer. It's competing with the imports that today's young buyers love.
There's simply not enough market to go around to have duplicate cars, and their increased tooling costs.
Be happy GM has 3 brands that they're fully behind.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Funny no one's mentioned the demise of the highest quality recent Pontiac, which sold in good numbers...the Vibe...many of whom will likely now migrate to Toyota...

The sad fact is, like Olds before it, almost 300,000 annual units will NOT be automatically replaced by Chev/Buick/Cadillac models... Were it NOT for Buick's "rising star" in China, it would have been gone (and was actively considered up 'til '08)...all 130-odd thousand domestically sold units ('09 MY)...

Are you following me from thread to thread? I hope not, because that would be obsessive.:upset: Take a breath, count to 10, let it go.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

It would be an "interesting" study to find out what % of Olds owners, circa 2001, and who have since "upgraded", are still with GM now...

My current car is an Oldsmobile. My next car will most likely be a Camaro.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

If anyone has seen the coming Regal and it's hot derivatives, Buick is not going to be an old person's car any longer. It's competing with the imports that today's young buyers love.
There's simply not enough market to go around to have duplicate cars, and their increased tooling costs.
Be happy GM has 3 brands that they're fully behind.

The new Buicks that car coming are pretty sweet. It'll be interesting to see if they have high performance "Super" versions of their cars. Either way, Buick is beginning a rebirth similar to what Cadillac started several years ago. A little bit of Pontiac's spirit lives on, but in a more upscale package.

[OrangeFury]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

If anyone has seen the coming Regal and it's hot derivatives, Buick is not going to be an old person's car any longer. It's competing with the imports that today's young buyers love.
There's simply not enough market to go around to have duplicate cars, and their increased tooling costs.
Be happy GM has 3 brands that they're fully behind.

The new Regal looks hot, no doubt. As for their ability to change their image...no small task. Saturn failed miserably at this. I also don't know how attractive this is going to be to young buyers, either...that thing is going to cost as much as an SS and have a souped-up 4 cylinder? Pass....

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

My current car is an Oldsmobile. My next car will most likely be a Camaro.

...which, for myriad reasons, makes you one in a million...

[Buffnshine]

I understand the Regal is being reborn and we are lucky to have Three divisions. I was never a Pontiac follower, but they had some amazing performance cars. A sister Firebird would be cool again, the G8 is very cool (especially after seeing them on the track yesterday), the current GTO and even my son has a Vibe GT which is very fun and better styling ques then its cousin the Matrix. Would be nice to see some of these models be re badged sort of like Dodge did with some of the Plymouth line

[AZCamaroFan]

i also just read , saturday, that Buick has shaved 3 years off it's buyers age this year.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by OrangeFury

When I used "sporty" I was more referring to the look as opposed to the performance. The two Grand Ams I had were sporty-looking and came at a much lower price tag than even the cheapest base Malibu (which I doubt your avg kid in their 20s would even classify as a "sporty" looking car).

I'm talking about the segment of the population that is coming out of college, entering the workforce, no longer wants to drive a beater but can't afford a $25K+ car. Pontiac filled this niche extremely well...sporty-looking cars and an affordable price. Now what are their options...a loaded up Cobalt?

As a guy who bought a Grand Am in his 20's, I understand completely.

Originally Posted by BEARS-SS

GM could market the same car (Camaro SS and Firebird) and sell the firebird for 5K more, even with the same specs. I love my Camaro SS, but the moc-ups I've seen of imitation firebirds are amazing. The pointed nose and the huge bird on the hood, I'm sure they'd to alright.

But thats the thing, the models wouldn't add many sales or have a high profit margin. It would need one or the other to survive. Low volume + low profit = money pit. Chevy can get away with selling inexpensive cars with small margins because of their large volume. Cadillac sells in a much smaller volume, but each one have a much higher profit.

And don't forget about the additional costs associated with tooling and engineering/validation. Those costs are more or less fixed for any one model, but if you sell 1/5 the volume (vs a Chevy) each vehicle sold has to cover 5x as much of that cost. Expenses could be dramatically cut if the sheet metal and most of the interior is kept the same ... but then that becomes a much frowned upon badge engineering job (G3-Aveo).

The unfortunate thing is, Pontiac has been squezed out of the middle. Just like Saturn and Oldsmobile. If GM had the market share they had 40 years ago, there'd still be room for Poncho. But they don't, and there isn't.

[LOWDOWN]

...and there's THIS partial explanation...

Pontiac...cancelled, April/09

Bancruptcy...ditto

Disenfranchised Dealers...do it while there's little/no recourse...

Anyone with Pontiac on their sign...dummmmdadumdum...

Fully 83% (5 outta 6) of the Dealers cancelled in Canada? Yup, Pontiac stores who also happened to have Buick AND GMC...which got handed off to the local Chev store...

"Collateral damage", some here describe it as...

Yet, as DG3 can confirm, Pontiac stores, there, sold a damn sight more than "20%" as many units as Chev stores, across the line.

"Doesn't count...Canada's too small a market..."

Regardless, in many markets, Montanas out-retailed Venture/Uplander, Sunfires/G5s outsold Cavalier/Cobalt...and, the stunner, Sierra out-retailed Silverado!!!!!

"Who cares about those platforms?"

ALL of those platforms were generally in CANADA'S TOP 10 RETAIL SALES. Right, DG3? Canada usually does 7-9% of GM's North American sales, but the U-Van and J-car? Something between 25-40%, recently, and Pontiac's versions sold even MORE, %-wise... In fact, Canada retailed ALL the U-Vans in N/A in '09 (Uplander was fleet-only, U.S., Montana only sold in Canada, period, and in very large numbers relatively).

Must have been all those nasty, underhanded, lousy CSI'd Pontiac/Buick/GMC stores tryin' to trick poor unsuspecting dumb Canadians, eh? We'll put 'em in their place!

It simply showed, to the U.S. Divisions' dismay, what might have been with equal representation and equal support (both ways), if GM simply had the will to let Pontiac succeed, instead of once more favoring Chev.

In a pi$$ing contest, the Bow Tie always wins...even when the Corp. loses...

And so, on D-Day, "Good bye Pontiac Stores". Simple Easy. "Don't need no Harvard MBA to figure this one out..."