Toyota reports $1.2B Profit

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

You certainly never fail to argue this side of the issue on the site....absolutely fa[s]cinating............

It's called "balance"...something missing from the biased site, listed...

Toyota's greatest "sin"? They paid attention to Kettering when GM wouldn't.

Isn't it ironic GMI is now called the Kettering Institute?!

FACT...fascination aside...

The "future" is not as opaque/obscure as some may think. It is widely known GM intends to market Chinese-assembled vehicles here, just as their Chinese operations are DIRECTLY responsible for current/future Buick designs, including the LaCrosse. And the lower costs of production, there, only make good business sense, as they've experienced since their takeover of Korea's Daewoo and its rebadged-as-Chevrolet products now for sale in your own backyard...

"Those who forget history are bound to repeat it"...

As to GM's fascination with employing so many, that's kinda changed since "the bailout"...Government Motors indeed...but don't worry. Rick and Fritz are doing fine...although Oakland County MI is a wee bit "behind it"...

Another irony: It took the Governments of two countries (and ignored shareholders/bondholders/suppliers, the same suppliers mentioned in the "website"...) to straighten out GM. And, as we know, "Government" = "efficiency"...

"Fascinating" indeed...

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by a_Username

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota...&asset=&ccode=



They have the ABSOLUTE BEST marketing team in the world lol. Any corporation who can go through government investigations, ~10 million vehicle recall, among multiple other hints at their failures and still manage to turn a profit it pretty impressive to say the least.

a $1.2B profit.... compared to an $8.2B loss last year


not bad. not great, but not bad

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

a $1.2B profit.... compared to an $8.2B loss last year


not bad. not great, but not bad

I don't know where you got the 8.2 billion dollar loss.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing.../TM/financials

Total Net Income for 2009: -4,423.78

Their annual filing to the SEC: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...36292/d20f.htm

Page F-5, net loss of 4.4 billion.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by skuttduck

Oh and GM's had partnership with Toyota. Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, Toyota Corolla/Chevy Prism.

It looks like if you are considering an import vehicle, Toyota is the best of them due to their high american workforce.

How committed is Toyota to those workers? Tell us what happened to that plant once Toyota took sole possession of it during the GM bankruptcy?

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Like all auto manufacturers, Toyota reinvests in North America as well as elsewhere...

4) It is only a matter of time before Chinese-assembled vehicles hit our shores, from various manufacturers...including GM. Those "assembled in China" products do NOT promise new manufacturing jobs in North America for us...but DO guarantee offshore investment profits...

I have no problem with GM investing in China to sell in China. That's a net income of money into the US (and is exactly what the Japanese are doing to our own market. However, I will NEVER buy any car from a foreign brand built anywhere, nor will I ever buy an American branded car built outside if N. America.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/fact_kit.html

Gee, thanks for the objective tutorial...where they're all happy and smiling about their "Parts" suppliers...including the ones who made Toyota's throttle pedal assemblies right here in good ol' North America...

So "wave the flag" while you can... The slow-boat from China is preparing to leave its home port...and will be FILLED with "domestic" brand names...FACT. What % of North American-sourced parts do you think they'll "wear"?

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Another irony: It took the Governments of two countries (and ignored shareholders/bondholders/suppliers, the same suppliers mentioned in the "website"...) to straighten out GM. And, as we know, "Government" = "efficiency"...

You somehow think you can defend the rule buy which Toyota does business by finding cases of the exception in which GM does the same thing, and then bash GM of occasionally doing the things that you defend Toyota for always doing. GM does build some stuff in China and Korea (I wouldn't buy any of it by the way), and Toyota does build some stuff inside the US, but across the whole product line, GM builds more in the US.

Rather than defending the global nature of the car business (which I recognize exists) you seem to merely have the classic knee-jerk reaction of America=inferior in all cases for all reasons. (Toyota's throttle problem was because an American company supplied the part, really?) And while I by no means defend the bailout (I'm very much against it) to pretend that the Japanese government hasn't been subsidizing Toyota in various way for years is very disingenuous. I'm not defending GM. I'm merely pointing out how illogical it is to use GM's business as an example of why Toyota should get a pass for the way they do business. Two wrongs never make a right.

Originally Posted by a_Username

They have the ABSOLUTE BEST marketing team in the world lol. Any corporation who can go through government investigations, ~10 million vehicle recall, among multiple other hints at their failures and still manage to turn a profit it pretty impressive to say the least.

This thread has been very educational. Username, you were more right that you knew when you posted that, and the other posts to this thread have proven it. Toyota's marketing team is beyond the absolute best. Though there has not been a quality gap for years, and despite years of recalls, years of selling people rolling coffins, and years of covering it all up, more people than ever are giving them a pass, buying and defending their Toyotas as if they were built by some divine providence, and not by the imperfect hands of man. Toyota's marketers have done nothing less than take a reputation of Toyota superiority and GM inferiority out of the 1970s (deserved at the time I admit), and turn it into a quasi-religion.

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

How committed is Toyota to those workers? Tell us what happened to that plant once Toyota took sole possession of it during the GM bankruptcy?

You may read it yourself here. http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...in-california/

Looks like they had another year of work once GM was out.

I suppose they could have just let it die when GM pulled out.

[a_Username]

If only politics where allowed here.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

How committed is Toyota to those workers? Tell us what happened to that plant once Toyota took sole possession of it during the GM bankruptcy?



I have no problem with GM investing in China to sell in China. That's a net income of money into the US (and is exactly what the Japanese are doing to our own market. However, I will NEVER buy any car from a foreign brand built anywhere, nor will I ever buy an American branded car built outside if N. America.





You somehow think you can defend the rule buy which Toyota does business by finding cases of the exception in which GM does the same thing, and then bash GM of occasionally doing the things that you defend Toyota for always doing. GM does build some stuff in China and Korea (I wouldn't buy any of it by the way), and Toyota does build some stuff inside the US, but across the whole product line, GM builds more in the US.

Rather than defending the global nature of the car business (which I recognize exists) you seem to merely have the classic knee-jerk reaction of America=inferior in all cases for all reasons. (Toyota's throttle problem was because an American company supplied the part, really?) And while I by no means defend the bailout (I'm very much against it) to pretend that the Japanese government hasn't been subsidizing Toyota in various way for years is very disingenuous. I'm not defending GM. I'm merely pointing out how illogical it is to use GM's business as an example of why Toyota should get a pass for the way they do business. Two wrongs never make a right.



This thread has been very educational. Username, you were more right that you knew when you posted that, and the other posts to this thread have proven it. Toyota's marketing team is beyond the absolute best. Though there has not been a quality gap for years, and despite years of recalls, years of selling people rolling coffins, and years of covering it all up, more people than ever are giving them a pass, buying and defending their Toyotas as if they were built by some divine providence, and not by the imperfect hands of man. Toyota's marketers have done nothing less than take a reputation of Toyota superiority and GM inferiority out of the 1970s (deserved at the time I admit), and turn it into a quasi-religion.

Not to seem cocky, but I doubt that.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/fact_kit.html

Gee, thanks for the objective tutorial...where they're all happy and smiling about their "Parts" suppliers...including the ones who made Toyota's throttle pedal assemblies right here in good ol' North America...

Facts are facts...and the fact is, it's a World-wide business, with a World-wide network for EVERY manufacturer... Those statistics, sighted, are changing daily for, if they don't, GM/Ford/Chrysler-Fiat will cease to exist...PERIOD.

So "wave the flag" while you can... The slow-boat from China is preparing to leave its home port...and will be FILLED with "domestic" brand names...FACT. What % of North American-sourced parts do you think they'll "wear"?

You're correct to point out the globalized product development of all manufacturers. You're missing the more important facts. There are more workers than factory workers at manufacturers, and you need to follow the paper trail to see where your money is really going.

Follow the money. If you're biggest paychecks go to executives in Japan, then their money is going to the Japanese economy. Buying a Japanese product, even when built by North American workers, supports a chain of command that is overseas. Those thousands of dollars you spent gets distributed. Don't fool yourself by saying that the workers who made it are here so the money must stay here. The big money is going to offices and employees overseas. You're paying a lot of overseas workers with the same money that could have paid a lot of domestic workers.

Keep following the money trail. The office workers you paid in Japan by buying a Toyota are now paying rent with that money in Japan. The renters are investing that money in Japanese banks. This affects the exchange rate because you're sending American dollars to Japan, depleting our money supply and inflating the value of the Japanese banking system.

To complicate things further, a chunk of your investment goes to taxes. Of course, the US bills you on your purchase, but the buck doesn't stop there. Japan bills Toyota for its profits. Each car is a big wad of cash to the Japanese government. Japan isn't paying the welfare of your neighbor who lost a job in this economy. Japan feeds the Japanese. Based on your posts, I imagine you do, too.

Now, I'm not faulting anyone for making the [foolish] decision that a Toyota is a better car than a domestic product. They could be Tatas. People make incredibly ignorant, reckless, and downright stupid buying decisions every single day. We can't blame idiots for being themselves. What we can do is try to educate people. If we have any sense of product knowledge, we should all know that most domestic products—keep Chrysler jokes to yourselves please—have superior quality and workmanship these days. We should appreciate that and demonstrate that appreciation with more than a remark on the highway that the car we just passed has good reviews. We should buy better products, and they are made right here by better designers, better engineers, and local workers, even if the actual factory worker who made it is somewhere else.

[UCI CamaroFan]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You're correct to point out the globalized product development of all manufacturers. You're missing the more important facts. There are more workers than factory workers at manufacturers, and you need to follow the paper trail to see where your money is really going.

Follow the money. If YOUR biggest paychecks go to executives in Japan, then their money is going to the Japanese economy. Buying a Japanese product, even when built by North American workers, supports a chain of command that is overseas. Those thousands of dollars you spent gets distributed. Don't fool yourself by saying that the workers who made it are here so the money must stay here. The big money is going to offices and employees overseas. You're paying a lot of overseas workers with the same money that could have paid a lot of domestic workers.

Keep following the money trail. The office workers you paid in Japan by buying a Toyota are now paying rent with that money in Japan. The renters are investing that money in Japanese banks. This affects the exchange rate because you're sending American dollars to Japan, depleting our money supply and inflating the value of the Japanese banking system.

To complicate things further, a chunk of your investment goes to taxes. Of course, the US bills you on your purchase, but the buck doesn't stop there. Japan bills Toyota for its profits. Each car is a big wad of cash to the Japanese government. Japan isn't paying the welfare of your neighbor who lost a job in this economy. Japan feeds the Japanese. Based on your posts, I imagine you do, too.

Now, I'm not faulting anyone for making the [foolish] decision that a Toyota is a better car than a domestic product. They could be Tatas. People make incredibly ignorant, reckless, and downright stupid buying decisions every single day. We can't blame idiots for being themselves. What we can do is try to educate people. If we have any sense of product knowledge, we should all know that most domestic products—keep Chrysler jokes to yourselves please—have superior quality and workmanship these days. We should appreciate that and demonstrate that appreciation with more than a remark on the highway that the car we just passed has good reviews. We should buy better products, and they are made right here by better designers, better engineers, and local workers, even if the actual factory worker who made it is somewhere else.

I blame the big 3 for being too ignorant for too long. They did not give the American consumer what they wanted: a reliable and economical car. This allowed them to build up their brand image to what it is today, and it gives them the loyalty of MANY American consumers. While they may have turned around their quality today, the brand images of the big 3 are tarnished.

I must say though... If anything, quality of the Toyotas have gone down since they switched production from Japan to America. I drive a 99 4-Runner. It was the last year that it was built in Japan, and I can say that after 216,000 miles on it, I have had no problems.

Toyota is a better run company than American car makers. Their profits prove that. Their company balance sheet proves that. And I'm saying this as a stockholder of Ford Motor Company.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You're correct to point out the globalized product development of all manufacturers. You're missing the more important facts. There are more workers than factory workers at manufacturers, and you need to follow the paper trail to see where your money is really going.

Follow the money. If you're biggest paychecks go to executives in Japan, then their money is going to the Japanese economy. Buying a Japanese product, even when built by North American workers, supports a chain of command that is overseas. Those thousands of dollars you spent gets distributed. Don't fool yourself by saying that the workers who made it are here so the money must stay here. The big money is going to offices and employees overseas. You're paying a lot of overseas workers with the same money that could have paid a lot of domestic workers.

Keep following the money trail. The office workers you paid in Japan by buying a Toyota are now paying rent with that money in Japan. The renters are investing that money in Japanese banks. This affects the exchange rate because you're sending American dollars to Japan, depleting our money supply and inflating the value of the Japanese banking system.

To complicate things further, a chunk of your investment goes to taxes. Of course, the US bills you on your purchase, but the buck doesn't stop there. Japan bills Toyota for its profits. Each car is a big wad of cash to the Japanese government. Japan isn't paying the welfare of your neighbor who lost a job in this economy. Japan feeds the Japanese. Based on your posts, I imagine you do, too.

Now, I'm not faulting anyone for making the [foolish] decision that a Toyota is a better car than a domestic product. They could be Tatas. People make incredibly ignorant, reckless, and downright stupid buying decisions every single day. We can't blame idiots for being themselves. What we can do is try to educate people. If we have any sense of product knowledge, we should all know that most domestic products—keep Chrysler jokes to yourselves please—have superior quality and workmanship these days. We should appreciate that and demonstrate that appreciation with more than a remark on the highway that the car we just passed has good reviews. We should buy better products, and they are made right here by better designers, better engineers, and local workers, even if the actual factory worker who made it is somewhere else.

To completely uphold protectionist policies is never smart. Toyota entering our market provokes much needed competition, and I as a consumer do appreciate their additions to our market. Competition leads to innovation, choice, etc., and all of these factors are what make up both our social and economical philosophies.

However, completely disregarding your own domestic products can be disastrous in the long run. As of right now, we do have at least equal product when compared to our imported competition. We should not make ourselves unable to compete in this global market by empowering our competition. This situation can be created by simply not supporting your home-grown products.

[AlSuwaidi]

dont forget toyota is one of the favourites world wide.. not just America..

if american cars could raisetheir image in the eyes of the world im sure their sales would go up and give the japs a challenge

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by UCI CamaroFan

I don't know where you got the 8.2 billion dollar loss.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing.../TM/financials

Total Net Income for 2009: -4,423.78

Their annual filing to the SEC: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...36292/d20f.htm

Page F-5, net loss of 4.4 billion.

I got it from the OP....

Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday that January-March profit totaled 112 billion yen ($1.2 billion) compared with a 766 billion yen loss the year before.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

However, I will NEVER buy any car from a foreign brand built anywhere

...and since you're being totally objective about this, your reasoning is valid...

You somehow think you can defend the rule buy which Toyota does business by finding cases of the exception in which GM does the same thing, and then bash GM of occasionally doing the things that you defend Toyota for always doing.

Actually, I haven't bashed anyone...sorry...I've simply pointed out some similarities/irregularities/differences that some don't care to see, or missed in passing...


GM does build some stuff in China and Korea (I wouldn't buy any of it by the way), and Toyota does build some stuff inside the US, but across the whole product line, GM builds more in the US.

I should hope so...they have, after all, a few billion of our tax buck$ propping them up..."paid in full" with TARP funds, also our tax buck$...can you say "shell game"? And "some" production, there? They're very close to building as many, there, as here. And to sustain that, like Toyota, much of their profits stay there in the form of reinvestment. After all, if you're going to design Buicks including Lacrosses over there, you have to have a few bucks to pay the "locals"...

Rather than defending the global nature of the car business (which I recognize exists) you seem to merely have the classic knee-jerk reaction of America=inferior in all cases for all reasons.

...and I said that, WHERE? I've never referred you to the "JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study-2010", have I? But since you raise the issue...

http://www.cars91.com/news/j-d-power...ic-perception/

Gee, by sales-related average, "Domestics" except Ford would be "below industry average" of 155/100. Is that being knee-jerk?

(Toyota's throttle problem was because an American company supplied the part, really?)

Simply put, in response to the biased site listed, the parts WERE manufactured here, regardless, weren't they?


And while I by no means defend the bailout (I'm very much against it) to pretend that the Japanese government hasn't been subsidizing Toyota in various way for years is very disingenuous.

...as disingenuous as GM's "support"... call it a tie...

I'm not defending GM.

At times, and in certain cases, that would be extemely difficult to do, but what you state above might lead some to think otherwise...


I'm merely pointing out how illogical it is to use GM's business as an example of why Toyota should get a pass for the way they do business.

Huh? Can you please 'splain this? Do you mean GM should do things differently, or Toyota should do things GM's way? NO ONE's getting a pass, near as I can tell... Toyota is paying for their mistakes, and we're paying for GM's till they get back on their feet...and that includes their TARP funds used to "pay in full" their now-outstanding-to-TARP money... Ain't Washington/Detroit math grand?

As to "investment strategies" by the automakers, they simply cannot afford to ignore "local investment" for myriad reasons. And the greatest reason, besides the obvious "political expendience", is their long-term viability...

For too long, GM had the parochial ideal that "unless it was conceived/designed/executed in America, it was less than the 14th Floor deserved, and less than worthy". Lutz, finally, put a bullet in the head of that notion. Bancruptcy, hopefully, buried it... No one can simply ignore "anything from anywhere, anymore"... And Chinese and Korean investment/production are the current living proof of that... Without them, GM and others are DONE!

BTW, avoiding non-North American developed product should have some rethinking their Camaros... Australia is its own continent...

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by a_Username

To completely uphold protectionist policies is never smart. Toyota entering our market provokes much needed competition, and I as a consumer do appreciate their additions to our market. Competition leads to innovation, choice, etc., and all of these factors are what make up both our social and economical philosophies.

However, completely disregarding your own domestic products can be disastrous in the long run. As of right now, we do have at least equal product when compared to our imported competition. We should not make ourselves unable to compete in this global market by empowering our competition. This situation can be created by simply not supporting your home-grown products.

I generally agree with that. Toyota being in our market has unquestionably make the cars from GM and Ford much better than they otherwise would have been.

We do need to do more to prevent our own homegrown industries from being put at a systematic disadvantage. The answer is not protectionism, it is reciprocity. There is a reason very few Koreans and Japanese drive American cars, but so many Americans drive Korean and Japanese cars, and no, it has nothing to do with differences in build quality. If the Japanese want Toyota to have full, open access to the US market, the requirement should be equally full access to the Japanese market for GM. Afterall protectionism will work damn well for those who practice it if the other side does not.