Election Day (NO POLITICS)

[Milk 1027]

Don't want to get political but that's why we have checks and balances in order to keep our elected officials from gaining too much power. As for not agreeing with a candidate the only way you would agree with a candidate would be if you were the one running that's why compromises must be made.

[Angrybird 12]

I want to say congratulations to those that voted. You had your say, and no matter who you voted for you got to put in your vote. and remember we just didn't elect a President, but most of us had a chance to vote for other congressional leaders along with local leaders. All of which take a hand in our future.

So good or bad we have what we have, Freedom of choice is what we all believe in and the choices have been made.

Again I want to thank all who voted and shame on those that didn't, to me you are not a true American!

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Not wanting to get politcal here to much either. I hope he works with John McCain to pull the country together. Right now the Dems have 4 years to prove they are better than the Republicans. But if he throws us in a depression with all his tax hikes then the Republicans will be back with a vengance in 4 years.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

I quite don't agree with the general mood ... American, french, english ... people died all over the world for freedom. I guess it includes the freedom not to vote.

I mean i've read here "you don't have the right to complain if the one you wanted doesn't win as you didn't vote" ... well ... what if you or I did not support any of the candidates?

I've been into that when I was 18 or so .. there was this pressure "vote vote vote" ...ok I've voted for a guy ... he lost ... no drama ...

That was 10 years from now, I've decided never to vote again unless I agree 100% with the guy I'm voting for. Cause voting for a guy is giving him the power to do whatever he wants on behalf of you. Right now obama is your boss. Anything he is gonna do will be legitimatye cause you have voted for him ...

I trust no one (secretly I'm some kinda republican anarchist)

I hold to my statement, and Shame on you for not voting. (you could have just written in your own name) I guess you like not having any say so in anything.. do you let everyone else tell you what to say and what to do without you giving your opinion? That is what you do when you don't vote.

By the way Obama is not my "BOSS" as you put it. he does not tell me what to do or how to live, the only one that does that holds a much higher office than him...

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

I hold to my statement, and Shame on you for not voting. (you could have just written in your own name) I guess you like not having any say so in anything.. do you let everyone else tell you what to say and what to do without you giving your opinion? That is what you do when you don't vote.

By the way Obama is not my "BOSS" as you put it. he does not tell me what to do or how to live, the only one that does that holds a much higher office than him...

He lives in France. I think he was just talking about Democratic governments in general.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

He lives in France. I think he was just talking about Democratic governments in general.

Actually what I said applies to French voting also....
Thanks.

[Punk_rider]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

I hold to my statement, and Shame on you for not voting. (you could have just written in your own name) I guess you like not having any say so in anything.. do you let everyone else tell you what to say and what to do without you giving your opinion? That is what you do when you don't vote.

By the way Obama is not my "BOSS" as you put it. he does not tell me what to do or how to live, the only one that does that holds a much higher office than him...

Just to make clear, i'm not american so I wasn't supposed to vote.

Besides that, I understand your point, but just understand mine.

Let's say I just hate both candidates. Am I supposed to vote anyway?

What I mean is that when you vote for someone, you don't have the choice in his program. You can't say "i vote for war but not for abortion". You vote, you give your legitimacy for the whole program.

I think people have the right (actually in belgium the law forces you to vote) to say "none of the candidates represent my beliefs, I won't give up my legitimacy to them".

Hope you understand, by not voting the only thing I say is "not in my name".

People died for freedom. I feel like applying this freedom when I choose to not chosse between what I may consider being two bad diseases.

Oh, BTW, if would have been american, I would have voted yesterday. Actually, I wouldn't have voted "for" but "against" someone. I don't feel like doing that is a proper way to apply freedom.

But no mistake, I understand you point. I just don't agree. To me freedom is also the freedom not to get involved in something you don't like.

As told, this way of thinking applies much more in free countries where there are no risk of dictature. Sure if tomorrow I have to vote to choose between Hitler and a repulicrat (or a demoblican) I'd vote...

Anyway, you guys made your choices. And actually I won't even voice what I think of the new president cause it's useless.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Just to make clear, i'm not american so I wasn't supposed to vote.

Besides that, I understand your point, but just understand mine.

Let's say I just hate both candidates. Am I supposed to vote anyway?

What I mean is that when you vote for someone, you don't have the choice in his program. You can't say "i vote for war but not for abortion". You vote, you give your legitimacy for the whole program.

I think people have the right (actually in belgium the law forces you to vote) to say "none of the candidates represent my beliefs, I won't give up my legitimacy to them".

Hope you understand, by not voting the only thing I say is "not in my name".

People died for freedom. I feel like applying this freedom when I choose to not chosse between what I may consider being two bad diseases.

Oh, BTW, if would have been american, I would have voted yesterday. Actually, I wouldn't have voted "for" but "against" someone. I don't feel like doing that is a proper way to apply freedom.

But no mistake, I understand you point. I just don't agree. To me freedom is also the freedom not to get involved in something you don't like.

As told, this way of thinking applies much more in free countries where there are no risk of dictature. Sure if tomorrow I have to vote to choose between Hitler and a repulicrat (or a demoblican) I'd vote...

Anyway, you guys made your choices. And actually I won't even voice what I think of the new president cause it's useless.

I understand, I feel it applies to any democratic country where elections are held. I know every country has different rules for voting, You have a right not to vote if you don't want to, no law against that, I just feel that it's your duty as a citizen to vote. You are given a choice and you have made yours. Your choice is not to vote but to sit back and let others decide things for you.

The reason Obama was elected is, for the first time Many made a choice to vote, and it went their way. Who knows, maybe someday you will feel inclined to vote, every vote does matter.... this election shows it does.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

I quite don't agree with the general mood ... American, french, english ... people died all over the world for freedom. I guess it includes the freedom not to vote.

I mean i've read here "you don't have the right to complain if the one you wanted doesn't win as you didn't vote" ... well ... what if you or I did not support any of the candidates?

I've been into that when I was 18 or so .. there was this pressure "vote vote vote" ...ok I've voted for a guy ... he lost ... no drama ...

That was 10 years from now, I've decided never to vote again unless I agree 100% with the guy I'm voting for. Cause voting for a guy is giving him the power to do whatever he wants on behalf of you. Right now obama is your boss. Anything he is gonna do will be legitimatye cause you have voted for him ...

I trust no one (secretly I'm some kinda republican anarchist)

While you are absolutely correct that freedom is not exclusive to the Unites States, I can only speak for our citizens. I am proud of those who fell under a flag with 13 stripes and a blue corner full of stars. I'm sure you feel some level of pride about those who died for your lifestyle, as well.

You'll never, in your life or anyone else's, find a candidate that matches your value. Furthermore, assuming that this candidate will change the system to your liking is even more impossible because we do not vote for absolute monarchs. If you don't vote because no one is good enough for you, maybe you should run for office. It will teach you how to compromise with your neighbors on policy issues, and it will also teach you that people who stick to their values and block out the world become marginalized and lose elections. I don't mean to be harsh, but you need to seek out candidates and parties that reflect your values. There is not perfect-match party. When you get them elected, you need to take the democratic responsibility to contact your officials to demand they vote your way. As a constituent, you hold your elected officials accountable. It is your responsibility to change society, not your elected official's.

On the issue of not voting, I can agree with you. While I don't agree with your reasons, I do respect that you don't vote. That is your choice. On that same token, I have the same freedom to disagree with your decision as you have to disagree with my opinions on candidates and voting. Obviously, I feel that voting is important to maintaining a democracy. Apparently, you feel that voting for someone with values that even slightly deviate from your values is inappropriate. I don't expect to change your opinion, but I do want to express that voting is essential to democracy, and apathy is the evil that leads to authoritarianism. Every time you vote, you are voting for democracy. If you don't vote, you're supporting a much more evil alternative. Would you rather be led by someone who seized power greedily and by force or by someone you didn't elect but was elected by a plurality of your country? I think the choice is obvious.

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

I hold to my statement, and Shame on you for not voting. (you could have just written in your own name) I guess you like not having any say so in anything.. do you let everyone else tell you what to say and what to do without you giving your opinion? That is what you do when you don't vote.

By the way Obama is not my "BOSS" as you put it. he does not tell me what to do or how to live, the only one that does that holds a much higher office than him...

No American President gets enough respect to call him or, someday, her boss. Obama is the election winner. This is not the end of the road. A lot of politicking has to happen for Obama to get anything his way, even with a Democratic Congress. In other words, voting only legitimizes the system of democracy. Doing what Obama says legitimizes his campaign. If he runs on the economy but wages war on Canada, that would delegitimize Obama. As a democratically elected leader, it is Obama's responsibility to maintain the support he earned in the election. One big mistake is enough to make all of that go away. As I've stated before, Obama does very little without the consent of Congress. Democracy tends to work from the legislature, not the executive.

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Just to make clear, i'm not american so I wasn't supposed to vote.

Besides that, I understand your point, but just understand mine.

Let's say I just hate both candidates. Am I supposed to vote anyway?

What I mean is that when you vote for someone, you don't have the choice in his program. You can't say "i vote for war but not for abortion". You vote, you give your legitimacy for the whole program.

I think people have the right (actually in belgium the law forces you to vote) to say "none of the candidates represent my beliefs, I won't give up my legitimacy to them".

Hope you understand, by not voting the only thing I say is "not in my name".

People died for freedom. I feel like applying this freedom when I choose to not chosse between what I may consider being two bad diseases.

Oh, BTW, if would have been american, I would have voted yesterday. Actually, I wouldn't have voted "for" but "against" someone. I don't feel like doing that is a proper way to apply freedom.

But no mistake, I understand you point. I just don't agree. To me freedom is also the freedom not to get involved in something you don't like.

As told, this way of thinking applies much more in free countries where there are no risk of dictature. Sure if tomorrow I have to vote to choose between Hitler and a repulicrat (or a demoblican) I'd vote...

Anyway, you guys made your choices. And actually I won't even voice what I think of the new president cause it's useless.

First of all, we're trying to keep the opinions of Obama under wraps. We don't want the mods to yell at us.

Second of all, you do have a say in the program because you can call any public office in any democratic country to ask for change. In many countries, it is also possible to participate in interest groups based on your desire for change.

Third of all, many people vote against someone. Yesterday, a lot of people voted against Republicans by voting for Democrats. Sometimes, expressing yourself with a single vote is a very complicated thing. Elected officials are aware of that. They also readily accept feedback from constituents on how they can better serve their communities. They aren't evil. They are just people doing a job.

[B2E2RUN]

Currently, there is no "right" to vote in a federal election. This really does need fixed somehow.

http://www.fairvote.org/?page=72

[Punk_rider]

To both Blur and skyman (sorry can't quote both of you don't know why, my pc's bugging):

I completely agree with you: if everyone or at least a big part of people do like me, democracy is dead. That's completely true and my choice is even more comfortable that I live in a free democracy where extrems do not exist (at least do not have a chance to win) and where other people vote.

This why I said that I would probabaly vote if I had the choice between Hitler and average joe. But I would feel quite dumb to have to choose between Hitler and Stalin ... remember Hitler was somehow elected

Overall I have to admit I don't like democracy. This may sound crazy but I explain: Ok, we haven't found something better than democracy, I completely agree. But common, democracy is far from being fair or even smart. We have a procedure here: the referendum. The states asks a question, you say yes or no. some people here want a referendum on GMO.
Ok, that's pointless. The state asks me wether I think GMO are good or bad. I'm no biologist, I have no skills to answer this question.
To me democracy is a kinda tiranny. the largest number of unqualified people rule 49% of unqualified people. You know it's like ... I mean ... a vote is a vote. Whether you live alone in the mountains or own a company making a living for 500 employees ... a vote is still a vote, you contribute for far more, but your voice just counts 1. I mean, I think it's unfair.

Besides I'm a little anarchist, I hate authority. I'm Cathoic and the only authority I recognize and accept is the Pope's one. Politics piss me off.

I could run for an office or something but I think power corrupts people.

Overall, you americans have a much closer relationship to your elected people than we do in europe. You elect your sheriffs, judges and so on. People you see everyday. We don't see our representants quite often here.

I don't plan on convincing you nor saying my view of things is a better one. I just voice a choice, or a non choice. I live in a country that quite largely doesn't like USA. I even was insulted for riding a 1944 jeep at a D Day remembrance in Normandy. I hate that but I guess that the blood spilled on Omaha beach was for freedom ... even freedom to be an idiot.

My way of thinking may look coward, lazy or weak. Maybe it is , I won't even argue on that. Still it exists. Still it is one way to use freedom. Just like the freedom of speech includes the freedom to shut up.

i'd be more comfortbale in a dictatorship where I think the dictator is a good guy than in a democracy where I hate the president. Ok, you 'll tell me "if the dictator is good, then he will turn the dictatorship into a democracy". good point.

But the funny part is that I could fight to keep my right to vote ... even unused!!

I talk too much and may say a lot of crap, still I defend the RIGHT to just don't care or don't support electoral system. I may be a bad citizen. But honestly, I don't care .. after all, first christians were forbidden from geting involved in politis. Just consider me as a first christian!

lol

Definitely, I sometimes talk too much

[Sierra]

I took pride in my vote. It does disgust me that more people vote for American idol then they do for president. Well I dont know about this time.

[patriotpa]

Well said, PR.

Also, The President isn't OUR boss. The People are his. He is a SERVANT of the PEOPLE.

Not a political statement. A Civics lesson.

Don't like what I just said? Ban me.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by patriotpa

Well said, PR.

Also, The President isn't OUR boss. The People are his. He is a SERVANT of the PEOPLE.

Not a political statement. A Civics lesson.

Don't like what I just said? Ban me.

looking for a fight or something?